Steel Frame: Pros and Cons

[Stephen D Aalderink]

A personal note about rusting steel:

I've been an avid cyclist in the rust belt of Minnesota for almost 24 years, half of which has been year-round through the nastiest MN winters. I can honestly say that the only thing that's ever rusted on any of my steel bikes are the fender bolts on my commuter. If you coat the inside of your new frame with JP Weigle Framesaver or Boeshield T9 you're good to go. And LugHugger is absolutely right that the current production of steel tubing is less likely to corrode than in the past. The tech that goes into the mfg of steel bike tubing hasn't slowed down a bit.

JP Weigle frame saver...exactly what it does!

 

[lanternrouge]

Great thread this guys, keep those posts coming.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Great thread this guys, keep those posts coming.

Well, gotta say we also encourage people to ride a variety of carbon before they ride our steel and ti demo bicycles and we sell many....steel and ti bicycles.
Carbon isn't the answer anymore than steel is, particularly when ride quality is 150% subjective. Steel really has no bad news associated with it. Regardless of those that hype carbon say. Carbon sells! But it isn't any 'answer'.

 

[titan_90]

Well, gotta say we also encourage people to ride a variety of carbon before they ride our steel and ti demo bicycles and we sell many....steel and ti bicycles.
Carbon isn't the answer anymore than steel is, particularly when ride quality is 150% subjective. Steel really has no bad news associated with it. Regardless of those that hype carbon say. Carbon sells! But it isn't any 'answer'.

Busted Carbon

 

[Stephen D Aalderink]

Well, gotta say we also encourage people to ride a variety of carbon before they ride our steel and ti demo bicycles and we sell many....steel and ti bicycles.
Carbon isn't the answer anymore than steel is, particularly when ride quality is 150% subjective. Steel really has no bad news associated with it. Regardless of those that hype carbon say. Carbon sells! But it isn't any 'answer'.

What's the question?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

What's the question?

A frame that rides great(subjective), looks great(subjective) and lasts. Something that 'encourages' the rider to want to get on the bike every chance they get, for lots of years.

It can be any of the 4 or 5 materials. Carbon works for some, doesn't for others. Same for ti, steel, aluminum, magnesium blend. The market is awash with carbon. But it isn't the epitome of bicycle frame material.

 

[Stephen D Aalderink]

A frame that rides great(subjective), looks great(subjective) and lasts. Something that 'encourages' the rider to want to get on the bike every chance they get, for lots of years.

You can wear a suit of old clunky armor if you want, I'll take the Kevlar flack jacket thank you very much...maybe its my opinion, but you are gonna have a hard time moving around in all that steel, Longshanks.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

You can wear a suit of old clunky amour if you want, I'll take the Kevlar flack jacket thank you very much...maybe its my opinion, but you are gonna have a hard time moving around in all that steel, Longshanks.

 

[mercycle]

Pegoretti Luigino. Heck, anyone of Dario's steel frames.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

A frame that rides great(subjective), looks great(subjective) and lasts. Something that 'encourages' the rider to want to get on the bike every chance they get, for lots of years.

You can wear a suit of old clunky armor if you want, I'll take the Kevlar flack jacket thank you very much...maybe its my opinion, but you are gonna have a hard time moving around in all that steel, Longshanks.

Righto, That 1 pound on a recreational cyclist ride 'package' makes a big difference. Another 'steel is a boat anchor' author. Carbon can be 'tuned' and made light, light(and fragile). It can also be made cheap, cheap. Lots of gadgets and gizmos in today's bicycle market, with carbon at the very top.

 

[Stephen D Aalderink]

Righto, That 1 pound on a recreational cyclist ride 'package' makes a big difference. Another 'steel is a boat anchor' author. Carbon can be 'tuned' and made light, light(and fragile). It can also be made cheap, cheap. Lots of gadgets and gizmos in today's bicycle market, with carbon at the very top.

Recreational, what's that? Who has time for recreation? 1lb difference? Steel is a boat anchor? I did not write that book, I wrote "Steel makes me squeal". Anything can be tuned. Anything can be made light and fragile...
And stop letting the bird in on the discussion...gadgets and gizmos don't go through the air and and pull 4'g under braking.
I love steel
Its real...
REAL HEAVY...and rusty. 63% of all steel frames are heavy and rusty. It's a
fact and 3 out of 5 cyclist are aware of this...
Be on the look out for my next book "How Steel Destroyed Cycling".

 

[Stephen D Aalderink]

Have at you!

 

[Bala Verde]

Boeing just built this new 787, made of 'composites known as carbon fiber-reinforced plastic', replacing the more traditional aluminum. Is this the future material of bikes as well? Or is the carbon fiber already the composite to use. I would guess it could be cheaper due to the inclusion of plastic. Any thoughts?

source

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Boeing just built this new 787, made of 'composites known as carbon fiber-reinforced plastic', replacing the more traditional aluminum. Is this the future material of bikes as well? Or is the carbon fiber already the composite to use. I would guess it could be cheaper due to the inclusion of plastic. Any thoughts?

source

I'm all for making carbon cheaper, but it's the lay-up process that's the big obstacle. A carbon bike, on any level, is much harder to produce than fabricating steel, alu, or Ti. Even if you did introduce other composites into the mix, it doesn't change the tedious factor that goes into making a carbon rig.

I also look at it as a time line. Carbon technology in bikes is still in it's infancy compared to steel. I was deeply entrenched in the industry during the crossover to carbon amongst the pro-elite ranks about 10 years ago, and it wasn't pretty. We had boxes of warrantied carbon parts and frames during that time stacked so high you needed a forklift to get to some of them. Carbon has come a long way since then, and I only look forward to how it gets better over time. It won't get cheaper though.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I forgot to mention in regard to your Boeing article, that the airline industry could out spend the bike industry a gazillion times over in R&D costs.

 

[TheDude]

Boeing just built this new 787, made of 'composites known as carbon fiber-reinforced plastic', replacing the more traditional aluminum. Is this the future material of bikes as well? Or is the carbon fiber already the composite to use. I would guess it could be cheaper due to the inclusion of plastic. Any thoughts?

source

Not cheaper, more expensive, you spend a LOT of $ trying to figure out what plastic and how much of it will give you the exact strength/stiffness/weight mix that you want for each portion of each tube.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Recreational, what's that? Who has time for recreation? 1lb difference? Steel is a boat anchor? I did not write that book, I wrote "Steel makes me squeal". Anything can be tuned. Anything can be made light and fragile...
And stop letting the bird in on the discussion...gadgets and gizmos don't go through the air and and pull 4'g under braking.
I love steel
Its real...
REAL HEAVY...and rusty. 63% of all steel frames are heavy and rusty. It's a
fact and 3 out of 5 cyclist are aware of this...
Be on the look out for my next book "How Steel Destroyed Cycling".

Can't wait(yawn).....

 

[Bala Verde]

I'm all for making carbon cheaper, but it's the lay-up process that's the big obstacle. A carbon bike, on any level, is much harder to produce than fabricating steel, alu, or Ti. Even if you did introduce other composites into the mix, it doesn't change the tedious factor that goes into making a carbon rig.

I also look at it as a time line. Carbon technology in bikes is still in it's infancy compared to steel. I was deeply entrenched in the industry during the crossover to carbon amongst the pro-elite ranks about 10 years ago, and it wasn't pretty. We had boxes of warrantied carbon parts and frames during that time stacked so high you needed a forklift to get to some of them. Carbon has come a long way since then, and I only look forward to how it gets better over time. It won't get cheaper though.

I overlooked the fact that the carbon frame production is very labour intensive, especially when you compare it to the production of a steel frame.

I forgot to mention in regard to your Boeing article, that the airline industry could out spend the bike industry a gazillion times over in R&D costs.

Definitely! The article mentioned that Boeing had engaged in these efforts to make cheaper (plastic v. alu?) and lighter planes, both in the long term. The lower weight would then reduce fuel costs.

What I was suggesting perhaps was that it could work as a 'trickle down' effect, whereby the airline industry develops the composites and production methods further, after which the bike industry could leech off of their efforts. Perhaps they can even find a way to reduce the time component of production...

 

[Stephen D Aalderink]

I'm all for making carbon cheaper, but it's the lay-up process that's the big obstacle. A carbon bike, on any level, is much harder to produce than fabricating steel, alu, or Ti. Even if you did introduce other composites into the mix, it doesn't change the tedious factor that goes into making a carbon rig.

I also look at it as a time line. Carbon technology in bikes is still in it's infancy compared to steel. I was deeply entrenched in the industry during the crossover to carbon amongst the pro-elite ranks about 10 years ago, and it wasn't pretty. We had boxes of warrantied carbon parts and frames during that time stacked so high you needed a forklift to get to some of them. Carbon has come a long way since then, and I only look forward to how it gets better over time. It won't get cheaper though.

A friend of mine had an early Al lugged carbon frame from Trek, when he would shift the front dérailleur, the entire seat tube would rotate in the bottom bracket shell.
And def agree about the tedium and expense - if we had F1 and Boeing type budgets...could you imagine? Folks in the bike industry do a good job, but all r&d and $$$ is in aerospace, military and elite motorsports.
Remember the Univega "boralyn" frame? - and what about all those Raleigh Techniums? We should have a thread for some of the bike industries biggest flops. It's interesting to see the progression that came as a result.

 

[Stephen D Aalderink]

Not cheaper, more expensive, you spend a LOT of $ trying to figure out what plastic and how much of it will give you the exact strength/stiffness/weight mix that you want for each portion of each tube.

Bondo-bike?

 

[Stephen D Aalderink]

Can't wait(yawn).....

I was just kidding -

 

[BroDeal]

I don't see why you guys don't just use titanium.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I was just kidding -

You'll have to excuse Bustedknuckle, he doesn't have a funny bone in his body.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I don't see why you guys don't just use titanium.

Ti is for middle aged upper middle class desk jockeys with a disposable income, or people in the industry that can get a BroDeal. I ain't gonna lie, I'd give anything for a MOOTS, just can't justify the price.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I don't see why you guys don't just use titanium.

bing, bing, bing, we have a winner!!