Super-human performances from Contador at Giro?

[Moose McKnuckles]

Just curious as to what specific performances at this year's Giro were super-human on the part of Contador and suggestive of doping.

Was it Etna? Zoncolan?

Or, was it just his consistency that was suspicious?

 

[Berzin]

What isn't up for debate, and should be, is why anyone expected Scarponi and Nibali to suddenly be considered equals on par with Contador that they could actually stay with him, attack frequently to take time from him, or put him under enough pressure for him to crack, none of which happened.

Y'all can claim it was Contador on PEDS, but not one rider on the Giro start list was up to the challenge of taking him on.

The field was not compelling by any stretch of the imagination, so for Contador to have won the way he did didn't surprise me at all.

Some of you guys need to stop making everything in cycling about dope.

 

[Le breton]

Just curious as to what specific performances at this year's Giro were super-human on the part of Contador and suggestive of doping.

Was it Etna? Zoncolan?

Or, was it just his consistency that was suspicious?

I am not aware of any superhuman performance by Contador in this year's Giro. Just very close to the best you can expect from a clean racer (which of course does not mean he was clean in 2011).

 

[c&cfan]

What isn't up for debate, and should be, is why anyone expected Scarponi and Nibali to suddenly be considered equals on par with Contador that they could actually stay with him, attack frequently to take time from him, or put him under enough pressure for him to crack, none of which happened.

Y'all can claim it was Contador on PEDS, but not one rider on the Giro start list was up to the challenge of taking him on.

The field was not compelling by any stretch of the imagination, so for Contador to have won the way he did didn't surprise me at all.

Some of you guys need to stop making everything in cycling about dope.

seriously, this forum (this section in particular) has lost all credibility for good discussions.

most posters here (sniper, MJM, terminator, etc) don't say nothing constructive, based in something credible, just like they don't know the meaning of good-sense and they can't "distance" themselves from some situation\likes-dislikes to provide a decent argumentation. they are pathetic and they make this forum and anyone that comes here post something also look pathetic to the "outsiders". mods are also responsible for this. this section is too "free".

basically, as the other thread about contador proves, they know nothing besides what they can take from wikipedia, and they even can't take it all correct from there, because they are biased.

they say merckx and the other pros from that era (4riders maybe, the ones that were winning.) were the greatest but they call indurain and contador dopers and something disgracefull for the sport. if someone is not biased, has some ability to think, how can they say that?
they don't understand the evolution of the sport, just like everything else.

for their sake and for this section's sake, they should be banned.
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about the OP,

since it was known that contador was going to do the giro, anyone knew what was going to happen. a team that he likes, a route that he likes, something to prove and a DS that he likes=6min to everyone else.

he never made something out of this world, but he was very consistent. talent did the rest.

he was spanish TT champion very young, won his first tour (he won some important races before) at 24\25. he is now 28. what were you expecting? that he was going weaker? well, if he isn't banned (the fair thing to happen), he will become stronger and stronger, just like his career is showing.

this is also why I don't understand the wiki doctors\posters saying that "suddenly" he became good at TT, beating the best TT rider ever in the tour (yes, the guy that works his a*s off for the shlecks and does not peak for it. plus his recuperation isn't as good as contador's, but who cares right?)

 

[hrotha]

The irony in every single one of Berzin's posts is hilarious.

 

[The Hitch]

Y'all can claim it was Contador on PEDS, but not one rider on the Giro start list was up to the challenge of taking him on.

The field was not compelling by any stretch of the imagination, so for Contador to have won the way he did didn't surprise me at all.

Umm they had Menchov (last years Tour 3rd place), and admitedly past it Sastre, Nibali and Scarponi who last year only lost time to Basso on one mountain, Rodriguez - 4th in Vuelta, 3rd on Tourmalet, Anton, who many here rate as a better climber than just about anyone taking part in the TDF, ands a bunch of other top Italian, Spanish and even South american riders.

So im guessing what you mean by "field not compelling" was that it had no Andy Schleck because other than that it had riders who are among the best in the world. (some did this, some - Samu Basso Evans, do the Tour) but it was a quality field.

 

[theswordsman]

What isn't up for debate, and should be, is why anyone expected Scarponi and Nibali to suddenly be considered equals on par with Contador that they could actually stay with him, attack frequently to take time from him, or put him under enough pressure for him to crack, none of which happened.

Y'all can claim it was Contador on PEDS, but not one rider on the Giro start list was up to the challenge of taking him on.

The field was not compelling by any stretch of the imagination, so for Contador to have won the way he did didn't surprise me at all.

Some of you guys need to stop making everything in cycling about dope.

Well said. Contador's season building up to this race was different than what he's done in the past. Normally he would get really fit for early races like Paris-Nice and Pais Vasco, then take a ten day vacation before training for the Tour. This year he, with guidance from Riis, held back on gaining fitness, avoided tougher UCI events, spaced races, sacrificed dominance, and built everything towards the Giro. In 2010 when he rode Fleche Wallonne, he was just past his early peak. This year he was no place near peaking. He did recon on the key stages, and tested different equipment, which resulted in his bike changes before mountain finishes.

This is what a 28 year old Contador looks like. He can win a seventh grand tour at a younger age than the Texan was when he won his second. This guy is a bike racer. Personally, with so many people saying he shouldn't be allowed to ride the Tour, I hope he blows it off. If he can't recover quickly enough to be well prepared, and would end up like Basso and so many others, I'd like him to change things up. He can take a well deserved vacation, since he has been through Hell since the end of August. Then he can start another gradual build up to be perfectly prepared for a tough Vuelta, and a serious attempt at Worlds.

The guy was in the pink jersey for thirteen days, guaranteeing anti-doping tests. If they did rest days, they've probably got at least fifteen days straight. The UCI is trying to win 3 million Euros of his salary from 2010, and a bust now could effectively win the arbitration, plus maybe 3 million more Euros from this year. WADA is desperate to win, so I'd imagine his samples are being tested for everything, and the guys with the fine tooth combs are going over his Bio Passport. But he dominated. He was at a different level from Nibali & Scarponi.

What are people going to say if CAS declares him innocent? Or if he takes it to Swiss courts? It's about 5 trillionths of a gram of Clenbuterol, the absence of a threshold, and Strict Liability, which is about as fair a law as Saudi women not being allowed to drive.

I witnessed three weeks of greatness and professionalism. I don't know what some of you saw instead.

What are people going to say of CAS declares him innocent?

 

[brianf7]

Nothing super human he just didnt have enough big guns there to give him a hard enough time .Now what remains to be seen is IF he rides the tour wil he be able to do it again. I dont think so.

 

[c&cfan]

The irony in every single one of Berzin's posts is hilarious.

that's it. another one.

----------

berzin,

the first part of my post wasn't directed to you.

in my opinion, based on what I saw since I started to watch this great sport, contador just showed that he is the best GT rider not because how he is so much better in the climbs\TTs, but because of how consistent he is during 3 weeks. that's his natural talent during the season\race itself. no distinct "peak".

 

[hrotha]

Nothing super human he just didnt have enough big guns there to give him a hard enough time .Now what remains to be seen is IF he rides the tour wil he be able to do it again. I dont think so.

Funny, prior to the Giro most of us were saying the field might be even stronger than at the Tour. If he's absurdly superior to everyone else but Andy that says a lot about the two of them.

 

[hrotha]

that's it. another one.

Sorry, if you don't see the irony in Berzin using the very same arguments he ruthlessly tears apart when an Armstrong fanboy brings them up, I can't help you.

 

[c&cfan]

Well said. Contador's season building up to this race was different than what he's done in the past. Normally he would get really fit for early races like Paris-Nice and Pais Vasco, then take a ten day vacation before training for the Tour. This year he, with guidance from Riis, held back on gaining fitness, avoided tougher UCI events, spaced races, sacrificed dominance, and built everything towards the Giro. In 2010 when he rode Fleche Wallonne, he was just past his early peak. This year he was no place near peaking. He did recon on the key stages, and tested different equipment, which resulted in his bike changes before mountain finishes.

This is what a 28 year old Contador looks like. He can win a seventh grand tour at a younger age than the Texan was when he won his second. This guy is a bike racer. Personally, with so many people saying he shouldn't be allowed to ride the Tour, I hope he blows it off. If he can't recover quickly enough to be well prepared, and would end up like Basso and so many others, I'd like him to change things up. He can take a well deserved vacation, since he has been through Hell since the end of August. Then he can start another gradual build up to be perfectly prepared for a tough Vuelta, and a serious attempt at Worlds.

The guy was in the pink jersey for thirteen days, guaranteeing anti-doping tests. If they did rest days, they've probably got at least fifteen days straight. The UCI is trying to win 3 million Euros of his salary from 2010, and a bust now could effectively win the arbitration, plus maybe 3 million more Euros from this year. WADA is desperate to win, so I'd imagine his samples are being tested for everything, and the guys with the fine tooth combs are going over his Bio Passport. But he dominated. He was at a different level from Nibali & Scarponi.

What are people going to say if CAS declares him innocent? Or if he takes it to Swiss courts? It's about 5 trillionths of a gram of Clenbuterol, the absence of a threshold, and Strict Liability, which is about as fair a law as Saudi women not being allowed to drive.

I witnessed three weeks of greatness and professionalism. I don't know what some of you saw instead.

What are people going to say of CAS declares him innocent?

I saw history being made.

 

[c&cfan]

Sorry, if you don't see the irony in Berzin using the very same arguments he ruthlessly tears apart when an Armstrong fanboy brings them up, I can't help you.

I didn't had the opportunity to see if you are right or wrong. however, from my point of view, armstrong did that (dominated) to the "contador" of his era, ulrich. totally different.

 

[roundabout]

It's hard to know the exact strategy of Contador but he did seem to get slightly slower as the Giro progressed. Even then his performance in the Nevegal TT (the last stage where he seemed to ride hard) showed in somewhat broad terms that his level of superiority hasn't diminished since the Etna massacre.

Shame cyclismag went the way of the dodo. Would have been interesting to compare this Giro with the 2010 Tour.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Sorry, if you don't see the irony in Berzin using the very same arguments he ruthlessly tears apart when an Armstrong fanboy brings them up, I can't help you.

Precisely.

Contador fanboys are Armstong fanboys. The only distinction is that the first time it was tragedy and now it's merely farce.

The level of doublethink it must take to simultaneously be obsessed with showing that Armstrong doped while being impervious to evidence including an actual positive test when it comes to Contador is truly astounding. And most of these people even have the cheek to sneer at the alleged gullibility and stupidity of Armstrong fanboys at the same time! By contrast with the pro-Contador anti-Armstrong brigade, the Armstong fanboy position is almost coherent.

Could you imagine the fun that would be had on this forum if we still had Armstrong fans engaging in the kind of special pleading (some of) the Contador fans go in for? Just imagine if it was announced that Armstrong had failed a Clenbuterol test and his admirers proceeded to go on about how low the reading was and how it came from the flesh of a performance enhanced supercow. There would be blood on the floors in here.

 

[ManInFull]

The guy was in the pink jersey for thirteen days, guaranteeing anti-doping tests. If they did rest days, they've probably got at least fifteen days straight. The UCI is trying to win 3 million Euros of his salary from 2010, and a bust now could effectively win the arbitration, plus maybe 3 million more Euros from this year. WADA is desperate to win, so I'd imagine his samples are being tested for everything, and the guys with the fine tooth combs are going over his Bio Passport. But he dominated. He was at a different level from Nibali & Scarponi.

Are you saying that the UCI receives money if CAS bans AC?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Are you saying that the UCI receives money if CAS bans AC?

He apparently believes that the UCI sat on his test result for months because it doesn't like money.

 

[c&cfan]

Precisely.

Contador fanboys are Armstong fanboys. The only distinction is that the first time it was tragedy and now it's merely farce.

The level of doublethink it must take to simultaneously be obsessed with showing that Armstrong doped while being impervious to evidence including an actual positive test when it comes to Contador is truly astounding. And most of these people even have the cheek to sneer at the alleged gullibility and stupidity of Armstrong fanboys at the same time! By contrast with the pro-Contador anti-Armstrong brigade, the Armstong fanboy position is almost coherent.

Could you imagine the fun that would be had on this forum if we still had Armstrong fans engaging in the kind of special pleading the Contador fan in? Just imagine if it was announced that Armstrong had failed a Clenbuterol test and his admirers proceeded to go on about how low the reading was and how it came from the flesh of a performance enhanced supercow. There would be blood on the floors in here.

for me a "fanboy" is someone that is blind. for example, I am not blind.

I enjoyed watching armstrong, even today I think that he did something only possible to one person in 6billion and that the fact that he is some sort of madmen was his biggest help. I just don't forgive him because a)he "used" lots of people that also admire him to a all different level than what contador did, and b) sI can't believe he used the same as ulrich and basso, so it was unfair. with contador it's totally different.

more talent, fighting someone whose father is some sort of "dealer" and his brother is also a doper, fighting persons that were around with great results in the armstrong era etc. not only that, he is a "true" cyclist. and yes, he, in my opinion, is cleaner than armstrong and merckx ever were, if you compare to the others.

 

[yourwelcome]

I witnessed three weeks of greatness and professionalism. I don't know what some of you saw instead.

Personally, I see history repeating.

 

[yourwelcome]

with contador it's totally different.

Of course it is

 

[veganrob]

AC, the best GT rider in the world in the prime of his career. Riding a course perfectly suited for his talents. Except for the TT. If they were longer he would have won by more.
Where was his competition? Nibali and Scarponi. Never. Menchov, one of the most erratic racers in GT's who just can't seem to figure out the best program for himself. Sastre, past his prime which was never near as good as Alberto. Rujano, that was the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen here. To think he was a contender. Please.
Alberto was consistent. He is very intelligent which I think he does not get credit for.

 

[rzombie1988]

It's hard to know the exact strategy of Contador but he did seem to get slightly slower as the Giro progressed. Even then his performance in the Nevegal TT (the last stage where he seemed to ride hard) showed in somewhat broad terms that his level of superiority hasn't diminished since the Etna massacre.

Shame cyclismag went the way of the dodo. Would have been interesting to compare this Giro with the 2010 Tour.

Contador usually follows a formula. Bear in mind it's not always correct:
- Never comes out on top of the first MTF/Big Hill finish.
- Attacks during an early mountain stage and usually gets in the lead.
- Holds onto the lead and waits for his top rivals to attack. If anyone in particular gets out, he stays with them.
- Usually in one of the opening stages of the last series of mountain stages he will go on the attack and gain extra time to be sure of a win. Then he will just follow for the last two mountains.

A big part of what he does is putting in a strong attack early and then just worrying about responding to attacks.

I think he attacked a little bit more this tour due to the time bonuses. The bonuses gave guranteed time which saved him some energy instead of getting a minute the hard way.

If I was a racer, my tactic would be just to follow AC. I think he's one of the smartest riders. He makes really good decisions on the road and always makes a good attack. Except for Rasmussen, no one has really been able to get time on him in an important stage.

 

[saganftw]

nobody can say if it was superhuman performance because he was rarely goin 100% and most of the time he was toying with oponents

i personaly believe 100% for entire three weeks would give him 10+ mins...u can draw your own conclusion,but its hard to believe in miracles after 20 years of superhuman performances from various cyclists

 

[Berzin]

Sorry, if you don't see the irony in Berzin using the very same arguments he ruthlessly tears apart when an Armstrong fanboy brings them up, I can't help you.

Let me give you a hand, then.

Contador didn't have a "train" leading him up every climb, charging up the mountains at 28 mph lead by noted non-climbers like George Hincapie.

He didn't blow past his rivals at the bottom of climbs, taking minutes and minutes at a time. Contador's attacks were well-timed and it was more a matter of taking off very close to the mountaintop finishes when the other were already at their limits.

Menchov and Sastre are past their sell-by date for grand tours. Rujano was never going to be a serious contender, though I did hope he would podium due to the form he exhibited at the Giro in 2005. That proposition was always going to be a matter of wishful thinking, seeing as in sporting terms the difference between 2005 and 2011 are like dog years. If anything Rujano is guilty of wasting those precious years in between the 2005-2011 Giros that he will never get back, and it was on display when he raced.

I don't recall where Scarponi and Niboli ever showed any prowess against Contador, but suddenly for this year's Giro they were talked up like Ullrich and Pantani clones at their best. That was a fabrication by the press. Apparently you bought into these two Italian riders being close in ability to Contador. That is a matter of you overestimating their abilities and believing the hype that followed them during the run-up to the race.

I think you are mistaking my dislike for how Armstrong accomplished his Tour wins with the manner in which Contador is going about his business.

There are some very pronounced differences, and I mentioned a couple of them. All you have to so is watch those Armstrong Tours to see what I mean. As much as I dislike the man, I watch those tours intently so that I can speak from what I see and not how I feel.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Sorry, if you don't see the irony in Berzin using the very same arguments he ruthlessly tears apart when an Armstrong fanboy brings them up, I can't help you.

That's two posts for you that have avoided the question I posed. I'm not trying to start a pillow fight here, so if you're itching for one, search elsewhere.

I'm just curious as to what people see as superhuman from Contador. Several posters, including Berzin and others have addressed this. You have not.