- Mar 11, 2009
- 1,927
- 4
- 10,485
Q/Just a suggestion....but maybe you could concentrate on the Physical component of cycling....and then the Psychological component??
Both very important, but I think the physical will have a larger influence on the outcome of the race./Q
Good empirical suggestion, but personally my mental training lags far behind my physical training, so I think it's time to begin exercising my neural cycling centre. But first I have to find it... cycling mental tactics... left, or right, brain activity?
And I'm not so certain the physical +does+ have the greater racing influence. Look how Mr. Evans' head caved in during the 2009 Tour. He admitted his poor performance was +entirely mental+, and he's a Pro!
Q/Being popped or dropped ... is just some thing you will have to deal with./Q
Familiar territory for many of us I'm afraid; and you're right, the first time I was "invited onto the Bus" was devastating. I put on a brave face of course, but took days to get over the shock of it. A marvellously character building experience; discovering your limits, and then extending them.
Q/nothing worse than working yah nuts off and slowly watching the group pull away.../Q
Aggh yes! This is where good mental tips would be handy. The tendency is too push on too long and really blow up. Whereas a more disciplined mind would say, "No, they are 30 yards away, you know you set a limit of 20, so stick to your rules, recover and concentrate on beating the Sag Wag."
180mmCrank:
Q/It is as important to apply a strong mental discipline to increase the quality and consistency of your preparation as it is to be mentally tough in the race itself./Q
Sounds like Gold advice to me!
Keep those tips coming chaps... you'll be helping and encouraging many enthusiastic novices like me.
Both very important, but I think the physical will have a larger influence on the outcome of the race./Q
Good empirical suggestion, but personally my mental training lags far behind my physical training, so I think it's time to begin exercising my neural cycling centre. But first I have to find it... cycling mental tactics... left, or right, brain activity?
And I'm not so certain the physical +does+ have the greater racing influence. Look how Mr. Evans' head caved in during the 2009 Tour. He admitted his poor performance was +entirely mental+, and he's a Pro!
Q/Being popped or dropped ... is just some thing you will have to deal with./Q
Familiar territory for many of us I'm afraid; and you're right, the first time I was "invited onto the Bus" was devastating. I put on a brave face of course, but took days to get over the shock of it. A marvellously character building experience; discovering your limits, and then extending them.
Q/nothing worse than working yah nuts off and slowly watching the group pull away.../Q
Aggh yes! This is where good mental tips would be handy. The tendency is too push on too long and really blow up. Whereas a more disciplined mind would say, "No, they are 30 yards away, you know you set a limit of 20, so stick to your rules, recover and concentrate on beating the Sag Wag."
180mmCrank:
Q/It is as important to apply a strong mental discipline to increase the quality and consistency of your preparation as it is to be mentally tough in the race itself./Q
Sounds like Gold advice to me!
Keep those tips coming chaps... you'll be helping and encouraging many enthusiastic novices like me.
Boeing:
Q/I have always set a personal pre race goal based on personal best opportunities as a baseline default./Q
I like this as a basic strategy, because it is independent of other riders, but will extend yourself. This assumes you know the course well, and already have a data bank of PBTs for the segments.
Q/...something tangible to complement my hard work.../Q
Yes, we need a fillip from the post-race internal debrief to reward our training.
Q/Knowing your recovery rate between max efforts it important. If you can surge tempo and recover and repeat you will learn what dudes game is./Q
Yes, I never thought of that aspect. Practising intervals on the same route will give you the recovery time info.
Q/I would not slow down just to sit on wheel IMHO. I know some say that but if you do you are in his game now... f that. tempo recover and see what he does. dont just duck into his shadow/Q
I see... well, I'll have to try latching onto the sucker's wheel first, and find out for myself how it works out. I take your point, that he's upset your tempo, and in control, but I like the idea that it gives you chance to settle your mind, and build up strength to attack when it suits you. An advantage if you do know the route well. I'll try it next time, and after that I'll try your tempo surge method.
Q/Know how to corner. The best way to lose a club wheel suck is to take him into a corner or series of corners at mach 90. while he is trying to find his line you can stomp the gear on the exit and build a gap and resume your tempo surge./Q
Bingo! Not only speed into it; I notice many riders stay a yard from the edge of the road, instead of just off the gritty stuff, say 6 inches around here. Some won't even cross the centre line when the road is closed to traffic! Usually the gradient at the edge +is+ a little steeper, but over a few kilometres the shorter line round corners, clipping apices, really adds up. Using this method on switchbacks I often +see+ a 3 yard gain on a single corner. The gain gives a mental buzz which stimulates you more when you are chasing.
Q/I have always set a personal pre race goal based on personal best opportunities as a baseline default./Q
I like this as a basic strategy, because it is independent of other riders, but will extend yourself. This assumes you know the course well, and already have a data bank of PBTs for the segments.
Q/...something tangible to complement my hard work.../Q
Yes, we need a fillip from the post-race internal debrief to reward our training.
Q/Knowing your recovery rate between max efforts it important. If you can surge tempo and recover and repeat you will learn what dudes game is./Q
Yes, I never thought of that aspect. Practising intervals on the same route will give you the recovery time info.
Q/I would not slow down just to sit on wheel IMHO. I know some say that but if you do you are in his game now... f that. tempo recover and see what he does. dont just duck into his shadow/Q
I see... well, I'll have to try latching onto the sucker's wheel first, and find out for myself how it works out. I take your point, that he's upset your tempo, and in control, but I like the idea that it gives you chance to settle your mind, and build up strength to attack when it suits you. An advantage if you do know the route well. I'll try it next time, and after that I'll try your tempo surge method.
Q/Know how to corner. The best way to lose a club wheel suck is to take him into a corner or series of corners at mach 90. while he is trying to find his line you can stomp the gear on the exit and build a gap and resume your tempo surge./Q
Bingo! Not only speed into it; I notice many riders stay a yard from the edge of the road, instead of just off the gritty stuff, say 6 inches around here. Some won't even cross the centre line when the road is closed to traffic! Usually the gradient at the edge +is+ a little steeper, but over a few kilometres the shorter line round corners, clipping apices, really adds up. Using this method on switchbacks I often +see+ a 3 yard gain on a single corner. The gain gives a mental buzz which stimulates you more when you are chasing.
- Jul 27, 2010
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In my opinion all of these questions depend on what sort of race it is and how far into it you are.
Ok firstly, if you are your own with one guy sitting on your wheel. Chances are you need him. If not, he wouldn't be on your wheel in the first place. By that I mean, if you are strong enough that you are placed first, ahead of any group, and overtake someone who then sits in, he isn't likely to be there for long if you have managed to drop everyone else solo. If on the other hand, you are behind a group, and this happens, you should definitely get him to share the workload. Doing this should be a fairly direct conversation in my opinion. i.e " come through of F off". There is no point getting into a p*ssing competition when you are trying to play catch up with a group. Because if you do catch them up, you will find that you have blown your wad as the pace ramps up towards the sprint.
If on the other hand you are in the first situation, i.e ahead of the field and racing for one/ two. You have two choices: encourage him into sharing the work, then make sure he is doing the lions share of it. Or simply to ride as hard as you can for a couple of miles without betraying any glimmer of fatigue or discomfort. Trust me, he will notice. One of the most demoralising experiences I have had is riding in a group of about twenty that was rapidly being shredded by one rider sitting on the front totally expressionless as he mashed an enormous gear at a terrifying rate up a 6% climb. I know he was hurting, but the fact that at the time I even questioned that he might not be was enough to send me shooting out the back snivelling. To be fair he did get busted a while later for PEDs and I don't think he even won that day, but that's beside the point.
One last thing, if you got dropped. Did you ask yourself why?. Were you dropped because you weren't strong enough? Or were you dropped because you were badly placed in the group? If it's the former....train more....if it's the latter, experience will fix it. And don't sit at the back of any group thinking it is saving your energy. It isn't. Also, make sure you find the right wheels to rotate with at the head of any group, if you aren't racing in an organised team.
Ok firstly, if you are your own with one guy sitting on your wheel. Chances are you need him. If not, he wouldn't be on your wheel in the first place. By that I mean, if you are strong enough that you are placed first, ahead of any group, and overtake someone who then sits in, he isn't likely to be there for long if you have managed to drop everyone else solo. If on the other hand, you are behind a group, and this happens, you should definitely get him to share the workload. Doing this should be a fairly direct conversation in my opinion. i.e " come through of F off". There is no point getting into a p*ssing competition when you are trying to play catch up with a group. Because if you do catch them up, you will find that you have blown your wad as the pace ramps up towards the sprint.
If on the other hand you are in the first situation, i.e ahead of the field and racing for one/ two. You have two choices: encourage him into sharing the work, then make sure he is doing the lions share of it. Or simply to ride as hard as you can for a couple of miles without betraying any glimmer of fatigue or discomfort. Trust me, he will notice. One of the most demoralising experiences I have had is riding in a group of about twenty that was rapidly being shredded by one rider sitting on the front totally expressionless as he mashed an enormous gear at a terrifying rate up a 6% climb. I know he was hurting, but the fact that at the time I even questioned that he might not be was enough to send me shooting out the back snivelling. To be fair he did get busted a while later for PEDs and I don't think he even won that day, but that's beside the point.
One last thing, if you got dropped. Did you ask yourself why?. Were you dropped because you weren't strong enough? Or were you dropped because you were badly placed in the group? If it's the former....train more....if it's the latter, experience will fix it. And don't sit at the back of any group thinking it is saving your energy. It isn't. Also, make sure you find the right wheels to rotate with at the head of any group, if you aren't racing in an organised team.
Thanks for an excellent, and useful, post!
straydog:
Q/Or simply to ride as hard as you can for a couple of miles without betraying any glimmer of fatigue or discomfort. Trust me, he will notice./Q
Indeed, we soon become "experts" at assessing competing riders don't we? And this mental appraisal +itself+ seems to have a large influence on our own performance.
Combining that thought with "looking back" recall the 09' TdF, when Frank Schleck (trying to look relaxed but right on his own limit) pointedly looked back into the poker faces of the front-runners on the deciding final climb. It didn't work, Frank himself cracked soon after!
Q/And don't sit at the back of any group thinking it is saving your energy. It isn't./Q
That's just what I +did+ think; care to expand?
straydog:
Q/Or simply to ride as hard as you can for a couple of miles without betraying any glimmer of fatigue or discomfort. Trust me, he will notice./Q
Indeed, we soon become "experts" at assessing competing riders don't we? And this mental appraisal +itself+ seems to have a large influence on our own performance.
Combining that thought with "looking back" recall the 09' TdF, when Frank Schleck (trying to look relaxed but right on his own limit) pointedly looked back into the poker faces of the front-runners on the deciding final climb. It didn't work, Frank himself cracked soon after!
Q/And don't sit at the back of any group thinking it is saving your energy. It isn't./Q
That's just what I +did+ think; care to expand?
usedtobefast :
Q/why did you go off the back? bad positioning? not fit enough?/Q
At first it +was+ the latter; once it was not eating enough, now it's simply trying to stay with the elite peloton, or an age group 10 years below mine.
I wish the UCI would introduce, and promote, age-group splits above 40 years old. There are some terrific 50, and even 60 years old road-racers who'd love to join in criteriums and stage races. No chance of mixing it with the elites of course, so they'd have to have their own criterium race, but mixed +could+ be managed in stage-races. Just allow a longer penalty cut-off for the older age group.
I don't know the figures, but my guess is bike manufacturers sell more high-end racing bikes to over 40s than to under 40s.
Q/... a 60 foot gap can be huge or small. being race fit is always the best approach, then you can usually get back on. be prepared to suffer,really suffer, if you want to do well.
once you get the fitness,then you can play chess with your opponents. or just
crush them like insects at the first available moment./Q
How about mental tactics to +avoid+ being popped from the peloton, or a line, when you see the symptoms developing?
Q/why did you go off the back? bad positioning? not fit enough?/Q
At first it +was+ the latter; once it was not eating enough, now it's simply trying to stay with the elite peloton, or an age group 10 years below mine.
I wish the UCI would introduce, and promote, age-group splits above 40 years old. There are some terrific 50, and even 60 years old road-racers who'd love to join in criteriums and stage races. No chance of mixing it with the elites of course, so they'd have to have their own criterium race, but mixed +could+ be managed in stage-races. Just allow a longer penalty cut-off for the older age group.
I don't know the figures, but my guess is bike manufacturers sell more high-end racing bikes to over 40s than to under 40s.
Q/... a 60 foot gap can be huge or small. being race fit is always the best approach, then you can usually get back on. be prepared to suffer,really suffer, if you want to do well.
once you get the fitness,then you can play chess with your opponents. or just
crush them like insects at the first available moment./Q
How about mental tactics to +avoid+ being popped from the peloton, or a line, when you see the symptoms developing?
Trunnions said:
race promoters try to have these cats for 50's and 60's but it's too expensive. You need a separate set of officials for road races and the fields are generally smaller. If you have a 60+ Cat 4 only race you probably won't get enough racers to make it a qualifier..so a a win won't count toward an upgrade. It's like womens races as a promoter you don't want to have them because the field never fills and to have prize money and separate cats you can loose a few 100 bucks just by having the race
- Jul 27, 2010
- 620
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Trunnions said:
Ok, firstly I hope the first comment was for me
Secondly, the expanded answer to not sitting at the back:
If you sit at the back, thinking that the peloton is drafting you or providing you with shelter and therefore saving you energy, you are missing a very important factor. Imagine a bunch is behaving like an elastic band. As it slows into a corner, it will bunch up and compress as the space available to it decreases. As it exits the corner it accelerates, and the front naturally stretches away from the rear. Meaning that the riders at the rear have to really step on the gas as they exit the corner so as not to get dropped. So this happens once, fine. Now imagine you are riding a criterium circuit, with maybe five turns a lap for 20 odd laps. This soon becomes pretty wearying for riders if they are constantly sat at the back, labouring out of every corner on a 25-30 mile race. Longer if it is a Road Race or Grand Prix. It is these repeated anaerobic bursts that will lead you to blowing and getting dropped.
Honestly, the only time I ride at the back of a bunch is if I am out of serious form and likely have no choice or if I am feeling so good and want more of a challenge or training effect. Sit in the front third of the bunch. Look for the right wheels to follow. You will spot them pretty quickly. And if you find yourself slipping back, focus all your efforts on getting back into a decent position, rather than drafting.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and don't ever slam on your brakes in front of another rider, unless you want to get yourself sued for the impending loss of income a broken collar bone or worse might cause. Having said that, as a junior I did have a "lord" reach over and pull my front brake cable during a break away, before threatening to wipe me out and cr*p in my mouth if I tried it again. To be fair to him, it worked.
straydog:
Q/I hope the first comment was for me/Q
Affirmative, followed by another instructive post too.
Q/It is these repeated anaerobic bursts that will lead you to blowing and getting dropped. ...Sit in the front third of the bunch./Q
Makes sense, and fits with my experience. I better stop sitting-on.
fatandfast:
Q/race promoters try to have these cats for 50's and 60's but it's too expensive./Q
Yes, I can imagine; at least they thought about it where you are. Never even mooted over here in SE Asia. Shame, we have an ex-Pro rider living locally, he competed in the Tour and Giro, now pushing 50. He occupies himself with sponsored record intercity solo runs here, and recently in Au and NZ too.
Q/I hope the first comment was for me/Q
Affirmative, followed by another instructive post too.
Q/It is these repeated anaerobic bursts that will lead you to blowing and getting dropped. ...Sit in the front third of the bunch./Q
Makes sense, and fits with my experience. I better stop sitting-on.
fatandfast:
Q/race promoters try to have these cats for 50's and 60's but it's too expensive./Q
Yes, I can imagine; at least they thought about it where you are. Never even mooted over here in SE Asia. Shame, we have an ex-Pro rider living locally, he competed in the Tour and Giro, now pushing 50. He occupies himself with sponsored record intercity solo runs here, and recently in Au and NZ too.
Ibanez said:
Shhhhhh! We don't want to advertise them. That place gives roadies, and Americans, a bad name in every way.
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