Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Andy schleck]

Don't say names in the article.

I don't believe in that reports. It doesn't make sense.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I don't believe in that reports. It doesn't make sense.

Too be fair, at least in the car they kept expecting Pog to be dropped stage 6 and 9 on what was played on Peacock.

 

[Andy schleck]

Too be fair, at least in the car they kept expecting Pog to be dropped stage 6 and 9 on what was played on Peacock.

Just like in UAE car, they expect that pog drops vingegaard.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

He seems confident but I can't be quiet to Jumbo's arrogance. Always acting like they know Pogacar's numbers and saying he delivered one of his biggest climbing performances. Just shut up and race.

I have made my feelings about Pog known, but I have to say that this idea that Jumbo is throwing out there that they have a plan to "break" him, is absolutely stupid. He's dropped your main guy twice now, and from the look on his face, he could have gone from further out and gained even more time. With Pog not having the strength of team as Jonas, that is a smart play. Now, I think Pog is the kind of person you don't p!ss off, because he will look to make you pay for your bullsh!t...then again, that may very well be why JV indicated they had some plan...they're hoping that Pog, riding out of anger, might blow himself up. I think he's going to rip through them, and I think, as the famous quote from Mike Tyson, everybody's got a plan, until you get puhched in the mouth.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Pogi is going to be provoked a lot, but he must stick to the plan : save up as much energy as possible including refueling, and then stay in Vingo's wheel until the last few km's.

What's dangerous is if Pogi attacks in the penultimate climb, Vingo let him take 10-20 secs making Pogi believes he might crack him which might force Pogi to go even harder, then in the descent Wout waits for Vingo, protecting him to maintain a 10-20 secs gap while doing as minimum effort as possible, while Pogi will go all in trying to further the gap. And then in the ultimate climb Vingo will start with fresher legs, and close the gap and go away.
(If all goes according to the plan).

 

[SHAD0W93]

Just like in UAE car, they expect that pog drops vingegaard.

Doubtful considering he hadn’t done it at the Tour for awhile and after their lumps received on stage 5.

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1678456783960940552

View: https://twitter.com/gcnespanol/status/1678456783960940552?s=20

Pogi already thinking about the Tour 2024? Translate croissant into Slovenian. There you have it!

 

[Miha81]

He seems confident but I can't be quiet to Jumbo's arrogance. Always acting like they know Pogacar's numbers and saying he delivered one of his biggest climbing performances. Just shut up and race.

Mind games. He must remain cool and not react. Less reckless Pogi is needed for this TDF.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Just be safe tomorrow and after that, just bring hell to Jumbo.

 

[bNator]

Pogi is going to be provoked a lot, but he must stick to the plan : save up as much energy as possible including refueling, and then stay in Vingo's wheel until the last few km's.

What's dangerous is if Pogi attacks in the penultimate climb, Vingo let him take 10-20 secs making Pogi believes he might crack him which might force Pogi to go even harder, then in the descent Wout waits for Vingo, protecting him to maintain a 10-20 secs gap while doing as minimum effort as possible, while Pogi will go all in trying to further the gap. And then in the ultimate climb Vingo will start with fresher legs, and close the gap and go away.
(If all goes according to the plan).

One would have to be really confident in his ability to do that. Which Jonas IMO currently is not. I just don’t se Jonas deliberately letting Pog go into the distance, risking losing everything if, god forbid, it turns out Pog has some fantastic legs on that day…

I do agree, however that Pog’s biggest threat is (again) overconfidence. He must keep his stage 6 approach. Must believe he is an underdog and he should be fine…

 

[Andy schleck]

He seems confident but I can't be quiet to Jumbo's arrogance. Always acting like they know Pogacar's numbers and saying he delivered one of his biggest climbing performances. Just shut up and race.

The only person/team arrogant until now, is emirates and pogacar when he was mocking van aert.

What people are saying about jumbo is rumours. Show me evidence....there is no evidence.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Why wouldn't Jumbo have his numbers? They have the perfect comparison values over the years through Jonas and Primoz, it's not really rocket science to get very close estimates of what are/were Pogacars best performances.

I like the confident digs regarding Jonas and looking forward to the Alps but it's a bit weird that he is still wound up by the Naichaca and CyclingGraph guys from twitter (because that's clearly the reference for the "Jumbo Visma believes..." stuff) , gotta keep your cool a bit more. His reference to weight doesn't even make that much sense, you can just work with etalon w/kg to work out what were his best performances.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The only person/team arrogant until now, is emirates and pogacar when he was mocking van aert.

What people are saying about jumbo is rumours. Show me evidence....there is no evidence.

Your love for Vingegaard is disturbing you man. All the talk about "he is on his knees", "we know how to break Pogacar", c'mon don't say Pogacar is the arrogant one because he was mocking WVA in the second stage.

 

[Cookster15]

The only person/team arrogant until now, is emirates and pogacar when he was mocking van aert.

What people are saying about jumbo is rumours. Show me evidence....there is no evidence.

This is evidence.

Vingegaard: Jumbo-Visma ‘have made a plan’ to break Pogacar at Tour de France

Yellow jersey leans on powers of endurance as race enters second week

www.cyclingnews.com

Pogacar dares mention anything in response and you wish to cherry pick this as arrogance? Please do try to be objective. Jumbo display exactly the kind of arrogance we used to get from Dave Brailsford at Skyneos. Like that they know Pogacar's numbers and know they can break him - I am sorry but that is a scientifically inaccurate statement -they don't know, they make an educated guess subject to variables and assumptions. It is a form of PR designed to unsettle the competition. For some reason fans don't like this.

 

[Cookster15]

Why wouldn't Jumbo have his numbers? They have the perfect comparison values over the years through Jonas and Primoz, it's not really rocket science to get very close estimates of what are/were Pogacars best performances.

I like the confident digs regarding Jonas and looking forward to the Alps but it's a bit weird that he is still wound up by the Naichaca and CyclingGraph guys from twitter (because that's clearly the reference for the "Jumbo Visma believes..." stuff) , gotta keep your cool a bit more. His reference to weight doesn't even make that much sense, you can just work with etalon w/kg to work out what were his best performances.

Well actually they don't have his numbers unless they have his blood lactate levels. Sky played this game. Didn't work for Wiggins at the Giro.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

This is evidence.

Vingegaard: Jumbo-Visma ‘have made a plan’ to break Pogacar at Tour de France

Yellow jersey leans on powers of endurance as race enters second week

www.cyclingnews.com

Pogacar dares mention anything in response and you wish to cherry pick this as arrogance? Please do try to be objective. Jumbo display exactly the kind of arrogance we used to get from Dave Brailsford at Skyneos. Like that they know Pogacar's numbers and know they can break him - I am sorry but that is a scientifically inaccurate statement -they don't know, they make an educated guess subject to variables and assumptions. It is a form of PR designed to unsettle the competition. For some reason fans don't like this.

From the article: ”Some of the stages to come will feature more than one mountain and the entire day will be up and down and not just a mountaintop finish. So far, the only days that has accumulated fatigue has been stage 5 on the Marie Blanque.“ I guess Tourmalet was easy and fatigue did not accumulate afterwards for Vingegaard. He was just dropped by Pogačar because it hadn‘t been hard enough beforehand.

 

[nightowl]

From the article: ”Some of the stages to come will feature more than one mountain and the entire day will be up and down and not just a mountaintop finish. So far, the only days that has accumulated fatigue has been stage 5 on the Marie Blanque.“ I guess Tourmalet was easy and fatigue did not accumulate afterwards for Vingegaard. He was just dropped by Pogačar because it hadn‘t been hard enough beforehand.

Yeah that this was a pretty commonly held assumption after last year’s tour and it looks like Jumbo have designed their tour strategy around this fact- but the stages so far haven’t backed that up at all. I wonder if Jumbo will actually still operate under the assumption that Vingegaard will be better on more fatiguing days or this is just a bold show of confidence.

 

[bNator]

From the article: ”Some of the stages to come will feature more than one mountain and the entire day will be up and down and not just a mountaintop finish. So far, the only days that has accumulated fatigue has been stage 5 on the Marie Blanque.“ I guess Tourmalet was easy and fatigue did not accumulate afterwards for Vingegaard. He was just dropped by Pogačar because it hadn‘t been hard enough beforehand.

I noticed this segment in his statement as well. "Just mountaintop finish" is a pretty arrogant way of describing the fact he got himself dropped by Pog two mountain stages in a row while stating that accumulated fatigue was only on stage 5 is a flat out lie. There's only a question of whether it's arrogance or defense mechanism.

As for Pog, he gave credit where credit is due. On stage 5 he admitted Jonas was much better and stated he will go day-by-day from now on. He even said he felt good and could not explain why he lost so much time. He did not downplay the importance of the stage, did not claim this was not his favourable terrain and he's gonna break Vinge in the upcoming stages. Did not look for excuses (though in fact, he had one) but kept shut while his legs spoke for themselves the following day. His comments were sincere and this kind of approach resonates with fans whether Jonas fans like it or not.

 

[Gratemans]

To be fair, it was the interviewer that threw the sentence "to break him" in there. Not Vingegaard. He just said they have a plan. Well, I expect every team to have a plan*

I haven't seen Jonas be arrogant anywhere. The Jumbo DS's should mind their language, I'll grant you that, but let's not frame this as "arrogant" Jonas vs. "humble and happy go lucky" Tadej. I like both guys and enjoy this battle, no need for hostile vibes imo.

*(except Movistar of course. Sorry couldn't resist.)

 

[Andy schleck]

This is evidence.

Vingegaard: Jumbo-Visma ‘have made a plan’ to break Pogacar at Tour de France

Yellow jersey leans on powers of endurance as race enters second week

www.cyclingnews.com

Pogacar dares mention anything in response and you wish to cherry pick this as arrogance? Please do try to be objective. Jumbo display exactly the kind of arrogance we used to get from Dave Brailsford at Skyneos. Like that they know Pogacar's numbers and know they can break him - I am sorry but that is a scientifically inaccurate statement -they don't know, they make an educated guess subject to variables and assumptions. It is a form of PR designed to unsettle the competition. For some reason fans don't like this.

Ok, now i know jumbo said that. But, what's the problem? Of course they know Pogacar's numbers. Their scientists evaluate is perfomances, they know his power, and they don’t need to know his weight. Watts etalon. They are able to know is weakness and his strong abilities.

Do you think san millan doesn't know and studied the abilities of Vingegaard and his weaknesses? The only difference is that jumbo said that to the journalists. Certainly they didn't said that with arrogance, and we all know that pogacar is not so stronger than Vingegaard in stages with multiple mountains and in altitude, what is the surprise?

Do you have been looking to the way pogacar has been racing in this tour de france? It's not in the same way of last year because he knows now through UAE staff the abilities of Vingegaard. They also studied Vingegaard. Why do you think that pogacar has been in Vingegaard's wheel all time and waiting to the last 2 kms?! Because he knows that he is better than Vingegaard in a last 3/4 min effort. He's got more explosion than Vingegaard. Uae staff also studied Vingegaard's weaknesses and told pogacar to ride this way. They know that if pogacar keeps on vingegaard's wheel and arrive fresh to the last kms like on sunday, he will probably make diferences to vingegaard.

The only difference is that jumbo told publicly that, but it's not arrogant. Every team does that!

 

[Elos Anjos]

^ wall of text says nothing.

 

[Cookster15]

Do you think san millan doesn't know and studied the abilities of Vingegaard and his weaknesses? The only difference is that jumbo said that to the journalists. Certainly they didn't said that with arrogance, and we all know that pogacar is not so stronger than Vingegaard in stages with multiple mountains and in altitude, what is the surprise?

Do you have been looking to the way pogacar has been racing in this tour de france? It's not in the same way of last year because he knows now through UAE staff the abilities of Vingegaard. They also studied Vingegaard. Why do you think that pogacar has been in Vingegaard's wheel all time and waiting to the last 2 kms?! Because he knows that he is better than Vingegaard in a last 3/4 min effort. He's got more explosion than Vingegaard. Uae staff also studied Vingegaard's weaknesses and told pogacar to ride this way. They know that if pogacar keeps on vingegaard's wheel and arrive fresh to the last kms like on sunday, he will probably make diferences to vingegaard.

The only difference is that jumbo told publicly that, but it's not arrogant. Every team does that!

Yes I thought about the arrogance and you are mostly right - most teams make these kind of statements particularly when there is a close fight. But teams also employ publicists who manage statements made to the media. They didn’t have to say it this way - it reminds me of Brailsford.

Obviously Pogacar is following Vingegaard’s wheel as that negates a key factor that saw his demise last year on Granon - Pog blew himself up and lost nearly three minutes. He doesn’t need to know Jumbo’s data on Vingegaard even if UAE looked for this - that is simply due diligence.

But for this TdF it is likely that as each day passes Pogacar will only get better. This is why Jumbo tried to crack him in the Pyrenees. It didn’t work as hoped.

I was worried about Pogacar in the heat. But I tend to think heat and even maybe altitude is also dependent on your form. We find out on the latter next week.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Love how when Vinge sat on Pog’s wheel last two years, Vinge was rated the better climber. Yet when Pog starts doing it and beating Vinge for now and it’s because Pog is just saving more energy Vinge is still a better climber. The facts we’re being shown is they’re very similarly skilled to the other with one being slightly better than the other in things on their best day.

 

[Andy schleck]

Yes I thought about the arrogance and you are mostly right - most teams make these kind of statements particularly when there is a close fight. But teams also employ publicists who manage statements made to the media. They didn’t have to say it this way - it reminds me of Brailsford.

Obviously Pogacar is following Vingegaard’s wheel as that negates a key factor that saw his demise last year on Granon - Pog blew himself up and lost nearly three minutes. He doesn’t need to know Jumbo’s data on Vingegaard even if UAE looked for this - that is simply due diligence.

But for this TdF it is likely that as each day passes Pogacar will only get better. This is why Jumbo tried to crack him in the Pyrenees. It didn’t work as hoped.

I was worried about Pogacar in the heat. But I tend to think heat and even maybe altitude is also dependent on your form. We find out on the latter next week.

Certainly we can agree that it was unecessary Jumbo saying that. They should had keep that for themselves, because now we are seeing that it can be understood for some people as arrogance, but i don't think that it was they're intention.

 

[Andy schleck]

Love how when Vinge sat on Pog’s wheel last two years, Vinge was rated the better climber. Yet when Pog starts doing it and beating Vinge for now and it’s because Pog is just saving more energy Vinge is still a better climber. The facts we’re being shown is they’re very similarly skilled to the other with one being slightly better than the other in things on their best day.

He is still a better climber at least until today in this tour because he is with the yellow jersey, and won more time in the stage of marie blanque than pogacar won in cauterets and puy de dome.