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Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Slovenian Gimondi.
Hell of a classics rider, but there was always De Vlaeminck (Van Der Poel)
Yet Pogacar has finished better than Van der Poel 7-5 in monuments and world championships that they both started. Add in Pogacar rides a MSR which favors MVDP and RVV is a toss up. If MVDP rode more monuments that favored Pogacar it’d be even more lopsided.


Just like it most likely goes in Mvdp favor if Pog started PR. Both are better than the other in 2 monuments and a toss up on the third.
 
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He has 2 GT wins… Froome has 7. He has the same amount of monument wins as MVDP, and less than Boonen and Cancellara.

So no, he’s not the GOAT, yet. Not to mention he was destroyed the last 2 years in the biggest race.
Yet Froome has 0 monument wins and Boonen and Cancellara have 0 GT wins. So you somehow make the point yourself that Pogacar is a phenomenon. I agree though, maybe a bit early with the GOAT label of new cycling but surely he had the best 3 consecutive seasons of any rider in the last 20+ years (actually checked this once even on CQ and Procyclingstats).
 
He has 2 GT wins… Froome has 7. He has the same amount of monument wins as MVDP, and less than Boonen and Cancellara.

So no, he’s not the GOAT, yet. Not to mention he was destroyed the last 2 years in the biggest race.
So you are basically saying Froome, MVDP, Boonen and Cancellara are all greater than Pog?

If Pog retires tomorrow, he will be greater than all of them IMO, just due to the phenomenon that is winning the races he did and the way he won them IMO. And I’m not belittling any of the above mentioned riders - but Pog is something else and it’s not about stats. If you put MVDP, Wout and Vingegaard together, they will still have to work really hard to win against Pog, each on their own respective spectrum. Yes, TDF 2022/2023 did happen, but so did 2020 and 2021.
 
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Yet Froome has 0 monument wins and Boonen and Cancellara have 0 GT wins. So you somehow make the point yourself that Pogacar is a phenomenon. I agree though, maybe a bit early with the GOAT label of new cycling but surely he had the best 3 consecutive seasons of any rider in the last 20+ years (actually checked this once even on CQ and Procyclingstats).
Yes, but let's not pretend that the monuments have the same importance as a GT, especially the Tour de France, who is all about for the casual fans(big proportion of cycling fans).
 
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So you are basically saying Froome, MVDP, Boonen and Cancellara are all greater than Pog?
MVDP, boonen and Cancellara no, but Froome certainly is still greater than Pogacar. Nevertheless Pogacar is 25 years, it's not fair for him. Better wait for the end of his career and see what he accomplished. Maybe he will be greater than him, but not yet.

Contador is also greater than Pogacar at the moment.

P.S- Van der Poel is a part time cycling road, and it's a shame because he could be better version of himself.
 
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MVDP, boonen and Cancellara no, but Froome certainly is still greater than Pogacar. Nevertheless Pogacar is 25 years, it's not fair for him. Better wait for the end of his career and see what he accomplished. Maybe he will be greater than him, but not yet.

Contador is also greater than Pogacar at the moment.

P.S- Van der Poel is a part time cycling road, and it's a shame because he could be better version of himself.
I don’t think it’s that self evident Froome is greater than Pog. Maybe at the time, the sum of Froome achievements is still better than Pog’s but it’s getting really close now…. After this season, the sum of Pog’s achievements (probably at least 3 GT wins, at least 3 additional podiums and maybe 7 monuments) will probably than 7 GT wins. And I haven’t even touched how difficult it is to achieve a diverse palmares like that, the manner in which the races were won and of course, at what age. These all count when one is talking about greatness.
 
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I don’t think it’s that self evident Froome is greater than Pog. Maybe at the time, the sum of Froome achievements is still better than Pog’s but it’s getting really close now…. After this season, the sum of Pog’s achievements (probably at least 3 GT wins, at least 3 additional podiums and maybe 7 monuments) will probably than 7 GT wins. And I haven’t even touched how difficult it is to achieve a diverse palmares like that, the manner in which the races were won and of course, at what age. These all count when one is talking about greatness.
If we talk about the manner in wich races were won, we also have to talk about the way he lost last 2 times, the biggest race in the world.

Like i said, Pogacar has a big chance of being greater than Contador and Froome in the future.
 
So you are basically saying Froome, MVDP, Boonen and Cancellara are all greater than Pog?

If Pog retires tomorrow, he will be greater than all of them IMO, just due to the phenomenon that is winning the races he did and the way he won them IMO. And I’m not belittling any of the above mentioned riders - but Pog is something else and it’s not about stats. If you put MVDP, Wout and Vingegaard together, they will still have to work really hard to win against Pog, each on their own respective spectrum. Yes, TDF 2022/2023 did happen, but so did 2020 and 2021.
If Pogacar stops tomorrow he definitely isn’t as great as the people I mentioned.
 
Yes, but let's not pretend that the monuments have the same importance as a GT, especially the Tour de France, who is all about for the casual fans(big proportion of cycling fans).
Well, if the discussion is who is the biggest GOAT then the opinions of casual fans shouldn't really have any weight. That should really be up to people in the know and people who know cycling know how hard monuments are to win and at least hold them in higher regard than casual fans would.
 
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No matter how many frauded lombardias or Mickey mouse gravel races he won, he cannot be considered the same level as mercxk. When Pogacar attacks, his style on the bike looks like a frightened small child desperately and frantically trying to show off how good he is to bigger kids, he exudes insecurity and will stop at nothing to terrorise genuinely family men looking for a humble breakaway win. I don't think he can be considered the greatest in an era when we have Van der Poel and remco, let alone to mercxk who won 5 times giro, 5 times Le tour and 7 Sanremo. The biggest races in cycling.

Never won Clasica San Sebastian - ends the conversation right there.

Nevertheless, greatness can be found in the most unlikely of places. For example, there is Mou in Mickey Mouse.
 
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How do you know that? How do you know Merckx would not even be more stronger with the access at all things the riders have today?
A few things we do know, if Merckx was active today:
-no way he is winning GTs with 74kg
-no way he wins 12 times at Milano-Sanremo, Paris - Roubaix and Ronde van Vlaanderen combined if he was a GT rider with let's say 65kg
-no way he is winning sprint stages like he did against sprint trains of today

In concludion, if Merckx rode today he would have to chose a career path of either classic rider or GT rider. My guess is, based on where he is coming from that he would look a lot more like MVDP or WVA and a lot less like a GT rider. Either way he is not winning as much as he did also based on the fact that a lot of his wins came in sprints.
 
A few things we do know, if Merckx was active today:
-no way he is winning GTs with 74kg
-no way he wins 12 times at Milano-Sanremo, Paris - Roubaix and Ronde van Vlaanderen combined if he was a GT rider with let's say 65kg
-no way he is winning sprint stages like he did against sprint trains of today

In concludion, if Merckx rode today he would have to chose a career path of either classic rider or GT rider. My guess is, based on where he is coming from that he would look a lot more like MVDP or WVA and a lot less like a GT rider. Either way he is not winning as much as he did also based on the fact that a lot of his wins came in sprints.
There is advantages and disadvantages between the two eras.

Merckx also has the disadvantage of not benefiting from a lot of things the riders of this era benefit. Better nutrition, better equipment, better training methods, and other things we can't talk here who are certainly more powerful than in that past era.
 
Fastest athlete racing today = FART.

At this stage it would be an insult to put him ahead of Merckx and Hinault and a multiple other riders based purely on achievements. The guy's never been a world champion, for instance, and he's not won all 3 GTs. Only having 2 GT titles in total is simply not enough to be considered among the best ever.

He may very well get there (he could already be much closer at the end of this season), and if he doesn't it could possibly be his own fault for not riding more GTs in his peak years (we don't know how long his dominance is going to last. Mou said at least another 4 years, but injuries and bad luck can hit him like it's done for other greats in the past, and new monsters could come enter the scene as well).