Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Any news about Pogacar or is he just doing his normal training in Monaco? 8 weeks off seems too much for a Pogacar's fan.

 

[Salvarani]

Remco's biggest challenge is himself. Pog and Vinge have no problem maintaining their optimal racing weight. That is Remco's biggest challenge to keep improving.

To eat or not to eat.

 

[Peyroteo94]

To eat or not to eat.

His body is not naturally built to climb high mountains.

 

[Salvarani]

His body is not naturally built to climb high mountains.

Aint no carbs high enough.

 

[scribers]

To eat or not to eat.

I chose eat

 

[Salvarani]

I chose eat

Fat baby, happy baby.

 

[Cookster15]

Don't you think TT's will be crucial to decide who will need to attack to gain time?

Not sure I’m following you? Are you implying Vingegaard is the better time triallist? I don’t think that is necessarily the case. Both of them TT based upon their form and how well they have saved their legs.

When Pogacar is in top form and doesn’t ride stupid I’d back him to beat Vingegaard in that discipline when both are making equal effort.

Combleux 2023 TdF is an outlier perhaps best discussed in the other forum.

 

[Cookster15]

His body is not naturally built to climb high mountains.

I never understand this view but seems common among some cycling fans and their perception of what climbers should look like. In fact, Remco weighs about the same as Contador did. He is obviously a little shorter and stockier.

But if Remco is light enough and can generate enough sustained watts it doesn’t matter for climbing how he is “built”. This only matters for aero - TT. That is what the physics says. That is also what watts per kilo says.

On paper Remco seems fine. And in the Tour in the mountains he was better than everyone except the big two. That means he climbed better than, for example, Mikel Landa. And in the Tour Landa was climbing at his highest ever level based upon watts / Kg.

ps - not trolling you just responding to comments stated as fact which I disagree with.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not sure I’m following you? Are you implying Vingegaard is the better time triallist? I don’t think that is necessarily the case. Both of them TT based upon their form and how well they have saved their legs.

When Pogacar is in top form and doesn’t ride stupid I’d back him to beat Vingegaard in that discipline when both are making equal effort.

Combleux 2023 TdF is an outlier perhaps best discussed in the other forum.

No, I think Pogacar is better by a small margin however I would not be shocked if Vingegaard beat Pogacar next year in TTs. What I was implying is Vingegaard needs to rely heavily on his TT to be somehow in defensive mode against Pogi and ride an attrition race. If Pogacar is in defensive mode, Vingegaard will try to break him but he will be counterattacked and lose time. This would be terrible for the Tour.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I never understand this view but seems common among some cycling fans and their perception of what climbers should look like. In fact, Remco weighs about the same as Contador did. He is obviously a little shorter and stockier.

But if Remco is light enough and can generate enough sustained watts it doesn’t matter for climbing how he is “built”. This only matters for aero - TT. That is what the physics says. That is also what watts per kilo says.

On paper Remco seems fine. And in the Tour in the mountains he was better than everyone except the big two. That means he climbed better than, for example, Mikel Landa. And in the Tour Landa was climbing at his highest ever level based upon watts / Kg.

ps - not trolling you just responding to comments stated as fact which I disagree with.

Remco is too bulky. I will ask you one thing, do you believe his body is naturally built like a climber or a pure time triallist? Remco can be close to his best in TTs even if he doesn't prepare them. If he doesn't do a specific preparation for mountains, I can tell you he will bonk big time.

 

[rokovski]

Remco will be much better only if he joins team with Pog or Vinge. Quickstep/BORA is years behind(for now) in making and supporting good climber.

 

[2WpK]

Fatco has stated his intention to lose some weight for next year's GTs. He knows these races are won in the mountains, not in the TTs.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Fatco has stated his intention to lose some weight for next year's GTs. He knows these races are won in the mountains, not in the TTs.

Why so late?

 

[scribers]

Remco is too bulky. I will ask you one thing, do you believe his body is naturally built like a climber or a pure time triallist? Remco can be close to his best in TTs even if he doesn't prepare them. If he doesn't do a specific preparation for mountains, I can tell you he will bonk big time.

I don’t even understand why he is the quickest at tt. Defies logic. If small guys are so good, why is remco the onky small guy at the top?

 

[Rob5091]

I don’t even understand why he is the quickest at tt. Defies logic. If small guys are so good, why is remco the onky small guy at the top?

Vingegaard aint no giant either.

 

[Cookster15]

Remco is too bulky. I will ask you one thing, do you believe his body is naturally built like a climber or a pure time triallist? Remco can be close to his best in TTs even if he doesn't prepare them. If he doesn't do a specific preparation for mountains, I can tell you he will bonk big time.

Like I said physics for climbing cares about weight to power. If his weight is accurately stated then 61Kg is ballpark - similar to Contador’s weight.

Style and looks (bulky) are irrelevant except for aero - TT. 61kg is 61kg it does not matter if you think he looks bulky. Because Remco is quite short he has less frontal area. Another rider who defied logic was Domenico Pozzovivo. Super light but with good TT because he had less air to push. It not just about pure watts.

The aero drag equation is CdA. Cd is the shape - position. A is the frontal area. For Remco it is mostly the A. A sky high aerobic capacity does the rest.

 

[Cookster15]

I don’t even understand why he is the quickest at tt. Defies logic. If small guys are so good, why is remco the onky small guy at the top?

Because most small guys don’t generate Remco’s watts. eg he has a very high aerobic capacity. There are other factors that can make good TTers. Femur length ?

Anyway, this is the Pogacar thread these questions should be asked in the Remco thread 🙂

 

[Berniece]

Why so late?

Different goals in his career. He also wanted to win the TT in EC, NC, WC, OG and every GT. To make that happen he had a different preparation. Now his sole focus will be GT’s

 

[Peyroteo94]

Like I said physics for climbing cares about weight to power. If his weight is accurately stated then 61Kg is ballpark - similar to Contador’s weight.

Style and looks (bulky) are irrelevant except for aero - TT. 61kg is 61kg it does not matter if you think he looks bulky. Because Remco is quite short he has less frontal area. Another rider who defied logic was Domenico Pozzovivo. Super light but with good TT because he had less air to push. It not just about pure watts.

The aero drag equation is CdA. Cd is the shape - position. A is the frontal area. For Remco it is mostly the A. A sky high aerobic capacity does the rest.

But he is shorter than Contador by a significant margin. Vingegaard is taller and skinnier. A rider with his height should be skinnier than 62 kg and for that reason I say he is not naturally built to be a climber. His upper body is too bulky compared to other GT riders and this is an disadvantage when he is climbing, specially steep climbs.

 

[Fos]

Because most small guys don’t generate Remco’s watts. eg he has a very high aerobic capacity. There are other factors that can make good TTers. Femur length ?

Anyway, this is the Pogacar thread these questions should be asked in the Remco thread 🙂

Perhaps the most important reason is to be able to produce power as close to his potential while maintaining the most aerodynamic position possible.

 

[Cookster15]

But he is shorter than Contador by a significant margin. Vingegaard is taller and skinnier. A rider with his height should be skinnier than 62 kg and for that reason I say he is not naturally built to be a climber. His upper body is too bulky compared to other GT riders and this is an disadvantage when he is climbing, specially steep climbs.

That is irrelevant. 62 Kg is 62kg (Wiki has his weight at 61Kg). Physics doesn't care how it looks. Did you watch the Tour - only the big two climbed better than Remco.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don’t even understand why he is the quickest at tt. Defies logic. If small guys are so good, why is remco the onky small guy at the top?

Because despite his incredible CdA, Remco is also a beast in developing watts. This guy is so talented and really rider and we don't see a rider like him in every era. However Vingegaard is also a rider with a gigantic power and very good CdA (not as good as Remco) so Remco will always have an hard time following Vingegaard in the mountains due to Vingegaard's unmatched w/kg. Pogacar is on a different level, I think he has the worse CdA but he is the most powerful rider in the world. He can produce watts like no one.

 

[Peyroteo94]

That is irrelevant. 62 Kg is 62kg (Wiki has his weight at 61Kg). Physics doesn't care how it looks. Did you watch the Tour - only the big two climbed better than Remco.

That's not true. Do you think a 62 kg cyclist has a similar body to a 62 kg judo fighter? He is not anatomically built to be a climber despite being short, he is too bulky in his upper body. He is insanely good because he can produce an incredible amount of watts for a rider of his weight. And for that reason, he can climb better than everyone else except the big 2. If he wasn't bulky, he could definetely shred 2 Kg and improve massively his w/kg ratio.
It's silly to think Remco is only stellar because he is the most aerodynamic guy in the world. No, he is stellar and the best because he can produce a lot of watts despite being the best aerodynamic guy in the world.

 

[Cookster15]

That's not true. Do you think a 62 kg cyclist has a similar body to a 62 kg judo fighter? He is not anatomically built to be a climber despite being short, he is too bulky in his upper body. He is insanely good because he can produce an incredible amount of watts for a rider of his weight. And for that reason, he can climb better than everyone else except the big 2. If he wasn't bulky, he could definetely shred 2 Kg and improve massively his w/kg ratio.
It's silly to think Remco is only stellar because he is the most aerodynamic guy in the world. No, he is stellar and the best because he can produce a lot of watts despite being the best aerodynamic guy in the world.

The bold is exactly what I am saying., You are saying something else - that he would climb better if he lost 2kg. I agree. But then he might lose some TT power.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The bold is exactly what I am saying., You are saying something else - that he would climb better if he lost 2kg. I agree. But then he might lose some TT power.

I think you will agree with me on this. Do you not think Evenepoel would be the best time triallist in the world (or close to) even if he lost 2 kg? But one thing I can tell you, Evenepoel can't be competitive if he is 2 kg heavier than his optimal weight.