Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[houtdffan]

If Pog wins TDF it will have been a better season than Jalabert’s 1995.

Pog would need a second GT result. Jalabert finished 4th in the TDF and then won all 3 jerseys at the Vuelta, after utterly DOMINATING spring

 

[Cookster15]

You can hardly call Flanders relatively minor

I understand. But outside the cycling world and Europe it is relatively minor. I think you are Australian? You should understand where I am coming from?

 

[Big Doopie]

Jalabert in 1995 was the last time someone had a Merckx level season

context is everything. lol.

1995? Please, let's be real.

Bwahahaha.

 

[IndianCyclist]

This is becoming Veni Vidi Vici

 

[Extinction]

This is becoming Veni Vidi Vici

Sure, when the competition is what it was yesterday. He's also going to Fleche for the same reason.

 

[Salvarani]

It is funny how the competition is now "weak" every time the other two-three guys are not there and Pog wins.

Starting to sound what everybody say when it comes to Merckx. "Oh, but the competition was so weak back then".

Feeling like it is only used to downplay the achievements.

 

[Extinction]

It is funny how the competition is now "weak" every time the other two-three guys are not there and Pog wins.

Starting to sound what everybody say when it comes Merckx. "Oh, but the competition was so weak back then".

Feeling like it is only used to downplay the achievements.

Nonsense, yesterday's field was objectively lacking and so will Wendsday's. Nobody said so at MSR or Flanders, however.

 

[Salvarani]

Nonesence, yesterday's field was objectively lacking and so will Wendsday's. Nobody said so at MSR or Flanders, however.

There were still five other monument winners and a Giro-winner at the race yesterday. A few others who have been on the podium in monuments. There were also many good young riders and talents at the race, who has been in great form in the beginning of the season.

It was a pretty "normal" even "good" WT-field for a one-day race, that is not one of the biggest ones. Anyone calling it "weak" is just over exaggerating to fit some kind of narrative that they have made up or want to spew, for unknown reasons.

 

[Extinction]

There were still five other monument winners and a Giro-winner at the race yesterday. A few others who have been on the podium in monuments. There were also many good young riders and talents at the race, who has been in great form in the beginning of the season.

It was a pretty "normal" even "good" WT-field for a one-day race, that is not one of the biggest ones. Anyone calling it "weak" is just over exaggerating to fit some kind of narrative that they have made up or want to spew, for unknown reasons.

Yea, but all the Bigs but Pogacar were missing. Normal and good isn't good enough, as you had three star riders against a five star rider. In fact the five star rider made short work of them.

 

[Salvarani]

Yea, but all the Bigs but Pogacar were missing. Normal and good isn't good enough, as you had three star riders against a five star rider. In fact the five star rider made short work of them.

This is a ridiculous way to look at it.

AGR had a solid/good field and Pog won very convincingly, saying anything else is just blatantly hating for no reason.

 

[Bolder]

It is funny how the competition is now "weak" every time the other two-three guys are not there and Pog wins.

Starting to sound what everybody say when it comes to Merckx. "Oh, but the competition was so weak back then".

Feeling like it is only used to downplay the achievements.

I've been thinking about this lately. Sure, every year or so you've got someone who dominates one or two races, but to win on all terrains for 3 months straight? That's not weak competition, that's just riding on a higher level than anyone else. (except MvdP, but again, not on all terrains).

 

[Extinction]

This is a ridiculous way to look at it.

AGR had a solid/good field and Pog won very convincingly, saying anything else is just blatantly hating for no reason.

So you are saying Pidcock, Healy and the others even further back were better than 3 stars? As I said against this Pog a solid field isn't good enough and to infer that it was adequite to mark the measure of his feat is what's ridiculous, you need a stellar field and we didn't have that.

 

[Extinction]

I've been thinking about this lately. Sure, every year or so you've got someone who dominates one or two races, but to win on all terrains for 3 months straight? That's not weak competition, that's just riding on a higher level than anyone else. (except MvdP, but again, not on all terrains).

In modern cycling the really big cylinder riders who can win the grand tours are not doing a full classics campaign, if at all. I have no doubts, however, Roglic, for example, could be very competitive in Flanders and the Ardennes if he wanted to, but he's doing the Giro so isn't interested. Whereas the classics specialists like MVDP and Van Aert aren't doing the Ardennes after Roubaix, which Pog skipped and who will do the Tour not the Giro. Hence he's in races with not always the strongest competition. Not his fault, of course, butI think, for all his feats, Pog is in the right moment to reap what he has sown, which is why he's opted for Fleche too given who can beat him in that field unless he has an off day? Only in Liege against Remco do we have a potential for a battle of titans in the Ardennes this season.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Jalabert won everything in 1995, except the TDF, where he finished 4th

Won one monument and Vuelta. Was highly succeeded in minor stage races. But wasn't close to win the Tour. He wasn't capable of winning Liege. He wasn't world champion. He was very regular but he missed big wins to be considered a legend season.
If Pogacar wins the Tour, he beats this season by far.

 

[Salvarani]

So you are saying Pidcock, Healy and the others even further back were better than 3 stars? As I said against this Pog a solid field isn't good enough and to infer that it was adequite to mark the measure of his feat is what's ridiculous, you need a stellar field and we didn't have that.

But it basically has to be a monument type of field with everyone present or the TDF to be "good enough" for you then?

There were plenty of good/great riders at this race, who has had great results. It was a very capable field for this race on the startlist. What you could expect for this race.

Pidcock, Benoot, Cosnefroy, SKA, Hindley, Higuita, Hirschi, Powless, Mollema, Gaudu, Madouas, Mohoric, Poels, Lutsenko, Barguil, Woods...

Great rides from Healy, Bagioli, Kron, Van Gils, Zingle, Ferron... who are just establishing themselves.

For some reason you are only trying to downplay this win. That it was only against a "weak" field. When it clearly was not. Pog is just dominating races atm. You cant set the bar for everyone else, to where he is at right now. Everyone is gonna look "weak" against one of the greatest cyclists of all time, beacause that is what he is looking like. It doesnt mean that the others are "weak" or not good/great riders. One is just that much better.

 

[Extinction]

But it basically has to be a monument type of field with everyone present or the TDF to be "good enough" for you then?

There were plenty of good/great riders at this race, who has had great results. It was a very capable field for this race on the startlist. What you could expect for this race.

Pidcock, Benoot, Cosnefroy, SKA, Hindley, Higuita, Hirschi, Powless, Mollema, Gaudu, Madouas, Mohoric, Poels, Lutsenko, Barguil, Woods...

Great rides from Healy, Bagioli, Van Gils, Zingle, Ferron... who are just establishing themselves.

For some reason you are only trying to downplay this win. That it was only against a "weak" field. When it clearly was not. Pog is just dominating races atm. You cant set the bar for everyone else, to where he is at right now.

I repeat none of the riders you indicate are 5 star, so it puts the feat into perspective. Folks are getting carried away with the obvious very fine performance, without, however, contextualizing the forces on the battle field. Pog really didn't have a rival, unless you think the likes mentioned on your list constituted a serious threat, which is merely laughable as indeed turned out to be the case. And it's not up to me whether it's "good enough," it is or is not, simple as that and it clearly was not.

Pog will possibly have a worthy opponent on Sunday, and, if he crushes it again, today's celebrations shall be more than justified.

 

[Salvarani]

I repeat none of the riders you indicate are 5 star, so it puts the feat into perspective. Folks are getting carried away with the obvious very fine performance, without, however, contextualizing the forces on the battle field. Pog really didn't have a rival, unless you think the likes mentioned on your list constituted a serious threat, which is merely laughable as indeed turned out to be the case. And it's not up to me whether it's "good enough," it is or is not, simple as that and it clearly was not.

Pog will possibly have a worthy opponent on Sunday, and, if he crushes it again, today's celebrations shall be more than justified.

Lol, whatever. Type to whisper someones acccomplishments, and yell out when they fail.

 

[Extinction]

Lol, whatever. Type to whisper someones acccomplishments, and yell out when they fail.

Or yell out someone's accomplishnents and whispers when they fail.

 

[Salvarani]

Or yell out someone's accomplishnents and whispers when they fail.

I dont think you have a leg to stand on with this...

 

[fox]

It is funny how the competition is now "weak" every time the other two-three guys are not there and Pog wins.

Starting to sound what everybody say when it comes to Merckx. "Oh, but the competition was so weak back then".

Feeling like it is only used to downplay the achievements.

Not at all, what he is doing is very impressive. He has been top level all season. But you can't deny that there was only one rider other than Pogacar from the current top 20 UCI standings. The field in this Amstel was good, but not top level.

 

[Salvarani]

Not at all, what he is doing is very impressive. He has been top level all season. But you can't deny that there was only one rider other than Pogacar from the current top 20 UCI standings. The field in this Amstel was good, but not top level.

Nobody said that it was "top level"... even though it is was a good WT-field with many established riders, who has won big races. Very few races will have a better field than yesterday.

To say it was "weak" to downplay the ride or that he presumably just faced a bunch of "amateurs" is just laughable. That this win basically doesnt count for some reason or something, because such and such wasnt here. That is just some very biased thing to say. That is just throwing shade.

 

[fox]

Nobody said that it was "top level"... even though it is was a good WT-field with many established riders, who has won big races. Very few races will have a better field than yesterday.

To say it was "weak" to downplay the ride or that he presumably just faced a bunch of "amateurs" is just laughable. That this win basically doesnt count for some reason or something, because such and such wasnt here. That is just some very biased thing to say. That is just throwing shade.

Next year nobody will know how good this field was. People will only remember that this race is also on his palmares. I am just saying that only Powless was there from the current top 20 and he crashed out. That is not downplaying, that is just stating facts. In fact, it is impossible to downplay the first half of the season of Pogacar. He almost made fools of Vanderpoel and Van Aert in Flanders, in there backyard. I have never been more impressed about any rider ever than that moment. This race however was almost a certainty and if you look at it, it is not downplaying at all. It just means that we put this guy at a complete other level.

 

[Berniece]

Nobody said that it was "top level"... even though it is was a good WT-field with many established riders, who has won big races. Very few races will have a better field than yesterday.

To say it was "weak" to downplay the ride or that he presumably just faced a bunch of "amateurs" is just laughable. That this win basically doesnt count for some reason or something, because such and such wasnt here. That is just some very biased thing to say. That is just throwing shade.

If Ben Healy is almost able to close a gap on you, the field isn't that strong.I also don't think Pog is close to his top form anymore, at least not as strong as he was in De Ronde.

 

[Salvarani]

Next year nobody will know how good this field was. People will only remember that this race is also on his palmares. I am just saying that only Powless was there from the current top 20 and he crashed out. That is not downplaying, that is just stating facts. In fact, it is impossible to downplay the first half of the season of Pogacar. He almost made fools of Vanderpoel and Van Aert in Flanders, in there backyard. I have never been more impressed about any rider ever than that moment. This race however was almost a certainty and if you look at it, it is not downplaying at all. It just means that we put this guy at a complete other level.

Plenty of the riders he faced yesterday could finish ahead of him on Wednesday, which a few already has in the past edidtions, that I mentioned in another post.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

That Pogacar is on another level... doesnt mean the competition is "weak". He is just on another level. Like I said, you cant compare one of the greatest cyclists of all time and thats the bar you compare everyone else to. The field yesterday wasnt "strong" enough to beat Pogacar. It doesnt mean that field was "weak" either. It is not that black or white. It was a standard/good WT-field for this race that he won convincingly against, because he is Pogacar.

 

[ppanther92]

I understand. But outside the cycling world and Europe it is relatively minor. I think you are Australian? You should understand where I am coming from?

Well but then you could almost claim only the Tour and maybe the WC count anyway.