Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

Aug 13, 2011
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Cookster15 said:
What was Merckx's best season?
Click to expand...
KZD said:
1972
He won MSR, LBL, Giro, Tour, Lombardia and set a new hour record.

Pogačar can still do the best season of the modern era, even though his 2021 season is already up there with the best.
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I was going to say 1972 as well. If Pog finished the year with Flanders, two of LBL/GdLWorlds, and Tour plus his other wins and placements that is in the running taking into account how specialized it is now with how long the season was. And if they absolutely fall in his lap and he wins 3 monuments, Tour, and Worlds that would be an amazing achievement and season. Now can Pog ever replicate a double and monument/Worlds in the same year, I don’t know but the future is bright.
 
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Panda Claws

Panda Claws

Aug 29, 2011
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Not that these mean anything, but I found it interesting to look at some rankings.

CQRanking's best season after Liège-Bastogne-Liège (since 1999 and barring 2020 for obvious reasons)
- Nobody comes close -
  1. 2023 Tadej Pogacar - 1796 points (up to 2076 points if he wins LBL)
  2. 2017 Alejandro Valverde - 1637 points (won LBL, FW, Pais Vasco and Catalunya)
  3. 2006 Tom Boonen - 1451 points (RVV, E3, Scheldeprijs. 13 victories)
  4. 2015 Alexander Kristoff - 1442 points (won RVV and got 2nd in MSR. 11 victories)
  5. 2012 Tom Boonen - 1438 points (won PR, RVV, E3 and GW)
  6. 2017 Greg Van Avermaet - 1411 points (won PR, GW, E3 and Omloop and got 2nd in RVV and Strade)
  7. 2015 Alejandro Valverde - 1411 points (won LBL and FW and got 2nd in AGR and Catalunya)
  8. 2018 Alejandro Valverde - 1393 points (in classic Valverde fashion his biggest win was Catalunya)
  9. 2019 Julian Alaphilippe - 1380 points (won Strade, MSR and FW)
  10. 2021 Tadej Pogacar - 1339 points (won LBL and TA)
  11. 2011 Philippe Gilbert - 1313 points
  12. 2021 Wout Van Aert - 1308 points
  13. 2019 Jakob Fuglsang - 1289 points
  14. 2022 Tadej Pogacar - 1261 points (missed LBL)
  15. 2015 Richie Porte - 1249 points (won PN, Catalunya and Trentino)
It is so crazy to think that for a while in 2019 the 'Big 2' were Alaphilippe and freaking Fuglsang. This ranking undersells cyclists like Cancellara of course who could win when it mattered but did not bother with too many small races.

Also forgot how insane 2017 Valverde's spring was.

It's only in the last ten years really that you see them racking up the points like this again however. There is some points inflation on CQRanking sadly but it's also just a different mindset nowadays.
 
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Panda Claws

Panda Claws

Aug 29, 2011
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SHAD0W93 said:
I was going to say 1972 as well. If Pog finished the year with Flanders, two of LBL/GdLWorlds, and Tour plus his other wins and placements that is in the running taking into account how specialized it is now with how long the season was. And if they absolutely fall in his lap and he wins 3 monuments, Tour, and Worlds that would be an amazing achievement and season. Now can Pog ever replicate a double and monument/Worlds in the same year, I don’t know but the future is bright.
Click to expand...
If Pogacar manages to win three monuments, Tour and Worlds that would mean 5 'big wins' (= Monument, Worlds/Olympics, Grand Tour) in a single season and that is something that only Merckx ever managed to do (naturally he also did it twice).

In fact it goes like this:

5 – E. Merckx (1971), E. Merckx (1972)

4 – F. Coppi (1949), E. Merckx (1969), E. Merckx (1973)

3 – A. Binda (1927), R. Van Looy (1961), E. Merckx (1970), E. Merckx (1974), E. Merckx (1975), B. Hinault (1980), S. Roche (1987), T. Boonen (2005), T. Pogacar (2021), R. Evenepoel (2022)

Note that him and Evenepoel were already the first since Boonen to get 3 'big wins' in a single season:
 
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Gigs_98

Gigs_98

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Panda Claws said:
Not that these mean anything, but I found it interesting to look at some rankings.

CQRanking's best season after Liège-Bastogne-Liège (since 1999 and barring 2020 for obvious reasons)
- Nobody comes close -
  1. 2023 Tadej Pogacar - 1796 points (up to 2076 points if he wins LBL)
  2. 2017 Alejandro Valverde - 1637 points (won LBL, FW, Pais Vasco and Catalunya)
  3. 2006 Tom Boonen - 1451 points (RVV, E3, Scheldeprijs. 13 victories)
  4. 2015 Alexander Kristoff - 1442 points (won RVV and got 2nd in MSR. 11 victories)
  5. 2012 Tom Boonen - 1438 points (won PR, RVV, E3 and GW)
  6. 2017 Greg Van Avermaet - 1411 points (won PR, GW, E3 and Omloop and got 2nd in RVV and Strade)
  7. 2015 Alejandro Valverde - 1411 points (won LBL and FW and got 2nd in AGR and Catalunya)
  8. 2018 Alejandro Valverde - 1393 points (in classic Valverde fashion his biggest win was Catalunya)
  9. 2019 Julian Alaphilippe - 1380 points (won Strade, MSR and FW)
  10. 2021 Tadej Pogacar - 1339 points (won LBL and TA)
  11. 2011 Philippe Gilbert - 1313 points
  12. 2021 Wout Van Aert - 1308 points
  13. 2019 Jakob Fuglsang - 1289 points
  14. 2022 Tadej Pogacar - 1261 points (missed LBL)
  15. 2015 Richie Porte - 1249 points (won PN, Catalunya and Trentino)
It is so crazy to think that for a while in 2019 the 'Big 2' were Alaphilippe and freaking Fuglsang. This ranking undersells cyclists like Cancellara of course who could win when it mattered but did not bother with too many small races.

Also forgot how insane 2017 Valverde's spring was.

It's only in the last ten years really that you see them racking up the points like this again however. There is some points inflation on CQRanking sadly but it's also just a different mindset nowadays.
Click to expand...
Yeah in terms of how much they won Valverde 2017 is probably the only season somewhat comparable to Pogacar's 2023. Although Valverde of course wasn't nearly as dominant and won most of those races with his sprint. Still kinda funny how a guy turning 37 was casually having by far the best spring of his career.
 
SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

Aug 13, 2011
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Speaking of checking stuff off in his very large trophy case, next year I hope he rides the Giro and Vuelta to potentially win and have a double and all Grand Tours but be the first rider to win the Young Rider classification in each GT to bag the Giro one. So far no one has accomplished this with the closest being Bernal but was caught up on the wrong side of a split with MAL. I think this would be easier if he wins Tour this year, then can focus on MSR and the double next year. I wonder with the amount of success he has had how long he will continue to ride into his twenties and thirties.
 
Roku

Roku

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Tadej Pogacar "Whole Calendar" Slam Watchlist (also considering podiums)

1. Grand Tours:
Tour de France X2 (2020, 2021), 2nd (2022, 2023)
Giro de Italia: TBA
Vuelta a España: 3rd (2019)

2. Monuments:
Milano San Remo: 3rd (2023)
Ronde Van Vlaanderen: X (2023)
Paris Roubaix: TBA
Liege Bastogne Liege: X (2021), 3rd (2020)
Giro di Lombardia: X3 (2021,2022,2023)

3. World Championships and Olympic Races:
Olympic Road Race: 3rd (Tokyo 2020 -held in 2021-)
Olympic Time Trial: TBA
World Championship Road Race: 3rd (2023)
World Championship Time Trial: -

4. One Week Races:
París Nice: X (2023)
Tirreno-Adriático: X2 (2021, 2022)
Volta a Catalunya: TBA
Itzulia: 3rd (2021)
Tour de Romandie: TBA
Criterium du Dauphine: -
Tour de Suisse: TBA

5. Other Significant Races:
Omloop Het Volk / Het Nieuwsblad: TBA
UAE Tour (sigh): X2 (2021, 2022)
Strade Bianche: X (2022)
E3 Harelbeke: 3rd (2023)
Gent Wevelgem: TBA
Brabantse Pijl: TBA
Amstel Gold Race: X (2023)
Fleche Wallone: X (2023)
GP Plouay: -
San Sebastian: -
Giro dell Emilia: 2nd (2022, 2023)
París - Tours: TBA

6. Stage Wins:
Giro de Italia Stage Wins: 0
Tour de France Stage Wins: 11
Vuelta a España Stage Wins: 3
Total GT Stage Wins: 14
Total Pro Wins: 63

7. "Minor" Accolades:
GP Montréal (2022), Tour of Slovenia (2022), Tre Valli Varesine (2022), Tour of California (2019), Volta ao Algarve (2019), x2 Slovenian ITT Championships (2019, 2023), Slovenian Road Race Championships (2023).

Notes:
(1)"Other Significant Races" is a non-comprehensive list of races outside the well established and common accepted three categories (GT, Monuments, Seven "Historically/Traditional" One Week Races)
(2): "Minor Accolades" include another non-comprehensive list of other races won that might be missed by some users.
The aim is not to argue about which are the most relevant races but to keep track of which I feel are the most prestigious events regardless of the current official category.
 
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tobydawq

tobydawq

Nov 16, 2013
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Roku said:
Tadej Pogacar "Whole Calendar" Slam Watchlist (also considering podiums)

1. Grand Tours:
Tour de France X2 (2020, 2021), 2nd (2022)
Giro de Italia: TBA
Vuelta a España: 3rd (2019)

2. Monuments:
Milano San Remo: 3rd (2023)
Ronde Van Vlaanderen: X (2023)
Paris Roubaix: TBA
Liege Bastogne Liege: X (2021), 3rd (2020)
Giro di Lombardia: X2 (2021,2022)

3. One Week Races:
París Nice: X (2023)
Tirreno-Adriático: X2 (2021, 2022)
Volta a Catalunya: TBA
Itzulia: 3rd (2021)
Tour de Romandie: TBA
Criterium du Dauphine: -
Tour de Suisse: TBA

4. Other Significant Races:
Omloop Het Volk / Het Nieuwsblad: TBA
UAE Tour (sigh): X2 (2021, 2022)
Strade Bianche: X (2022)
E3 Harelbeke: 3rd (2023)
Gent Wevelgem: TBA
Brabantse Pijl: TBA
Amstel Gold Race: X (2023)
Fleche Wallone: X (2023)
GP Plouay: -
San Sebastian: -
Giro dell Emilia: 2nd (2022)
París - Tours: TBA
Olympic Road Race: 3rd (2020)
Olympic Time Trial: TBA
World Championship Road Race: -
World Championship Time Trial: -

5. Stage Wins:
Giro de Italia Stage Wins: 0
Tour de France Stage Wins: 9
Vuelta a España Stage Wins: 3
Total GT Stage Wins: 12
Total Pro Wins: 58

Note: "Other Significant Races" is a non-comprehensive list of races outside the well established and common accepted three categories (GT, Monuments, Seven "Historically/Traditional" One Week Races), the aim is not to argue about which are the most relevant races but to keep track of which I would personally consider the most prestigious events regardless of the current official category.
Click to expand...
Olympic Road Race bronze was in 2021 :)
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Roku said:
Tadej Pogacar "Whole Calendar" Slam Watchlist (also considering podiums)

1. Grand Tours:
Tour de France X2 (2020, 2021), 2nd (2022)
Giro de Italia: TBA
Vuelta a España: 3rd (2019)

2. Monuments:
Milano San Remo: 3rd (2023)
Ronde Van Vlaanderen: X (2023)
Paris Roubaix: TBA
Liege Bastogne Liege: X (2021), 3rd (2020)
Giro di Lombardia: X2 (2021,2022)

3. One Week Races:
París Nice: X (2023)
Tirreno-Adriático: X2 (2021, 2022)
Volta a Catalunya: TBA
Itzulia: 3rd (2021)
Tour de Romandie: TBA
Criterium du Dauphine: -
Tour de Suisse: TBA

4. Other Significant Races:
Omloop Het Volk / Het Nieuwsblad: TBA
UAE Tour (sigh): X2 (2021, 2022)
Strade Bianche: X (2022)
E3 Harelbeke: 3rd (2023)
Gent Wevelgem: TBA
Brabantse Pijl: TBA
Amstel Gold Race: X (2023)
Fleche Wallone: X (2023)
GP Plouay: -
San Sebastian: -
Giro dell Emilia: 2nd (2022)
París - Tours: TBA
Olympic Road Race: 3rd (2020)
Olympic Time Trial: TBA
World Championship Road Race: -
World Championship Time Trial: -

5. Stage Wins:
Giro de Italia Stage Wins: 0
Tour de France Stage Wins: 9
Vuelta a España Stage Wins: 3
Total GT Stage Wins: 12
Total Pro Wins: 58

Note: "Other Significant Races" is a non-comprehensive list of races outside the well established and common accepted three categories (GT, Monuments, Seven "Historically/Traditional" One Week Races), the aim is not to argue about which are the most relevant races but to keep track of which I would personally consider the most prestigious events regardless of the current official category.
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I have seen your note, but GP Plouay?

Should also be noted he has won Tre Valli Varesine and GP Cycliste de Montréal. The latter being a WT-race.

Jaen is a new race, but also a win that might become more prestigious as the years go by.
 
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Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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SHAD0W93 said:
Speaking of checking stuff off in his very large trophy case, next year I hope he rides the Giro and Vuelta to potentially win and have a double and all Grand Tours but be the first rider to win the Young Rider classification in each GT to bag the Giro one. So far no one has accomplished this with the closest being Bernal but was caught up on the wrong side of a split with MAL. I think this would be easier if he wins Tour this year, then can focus on MSR and the double next year. I wonder with the amount of success he has had how long he will continue to ride into his twenties and thirties.
Click to expand...
Pogacar would still be in the young riders classification of the Giro next year...what the ***
 
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hayneplane

Sep 4, 2017
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tobydawq said:
Certainly. Getting his season in the conversation is contingent on winning the Tour, though.
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It will be viewed that way by many but if he wins LBL then he would have 2 monuments, several classics, a big 1 week stage race win, stacks of stages plus other podiums and the first Ardennes triple in over 10 years.

Punishing him in verdict for his versatility would be unfair if it is downgrade for not also winning the tour.
 
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