Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[meat puppet]

Good to see lack of base confirmed by San Millan himself. Using his lingo, Pog's turbo has been fine. The watts are his best ever. It's the day-to-day repeatability of long duration high wattages that held him back.

I wonder if he is recovered for tomorrow.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Big day ahead tomorrow. A lot of questions in need to be asked. Some talking involved too.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Please, give me a 2011 Contador performance. One for the ages, just fire during 130 km

 

[Bolder]

I disagree with the bold - "even in peak condition", when was that? We don't know this. As Netserk wrote yesterday, "from Cauterets to Joux-Plane, he seemed to be the strongest rider in the race" Yep - not bad for a rider who couldn't train properly after a late April broken wrist.

How do you think Vingegaard would have fared in 2022 if the team roles were reversed or this year with the injury setback? From what I have noticed Vingegaard is the more fragile, certainly mentally if not physically. Physically Vingo is protected and kept fresher by his stronger team. UAE were better this year, but Pog's condition wasn't.

So far, peak GT condition was 2021 tour, or 2022 tour. Frankly I think he was in great shape to start the Tour this year, too. There wasn't much between the two until Sallanches.

And yet JV has décisively beaten him in two Tours, plus showed his potential upside in 2021 despite having to take on an unexpected leadership role.

But you're right, I think, in that Vingegaard seems like he's better or more comfortable with a team around him. Pog has always been a solo act.

Different styles, maybe. We really haven't seen JV isolated and really under pressure yet. Just like we hadn't seen it for Pog until Loze...

 

[IndianCyclist]

The TT was Jonas best performance ever. Nobody expected this nor has an explanation. The next stage was Pogacar's worst performance ever. He wasn't cracked by Jonas, he was dropped by some domestiques, Adam Yates did not drop even though he has been pacing at the pointy end of the whole race. Nobody expected this nor has an explanation. I do not think there were any problems with his training. If there were it would have reflected in his performances in which he routinely matched or beat Jonas. The comments from him, his team and doctor is basically mental games prior to the race or to explain away a loss to the sheiks bankrolling the team and the fans. Two outlier performances on either side of the normal cannot conclude that one is superior to the other

 

[Red Rick]

With normal preperation and non amateur hour TT prep it would have been very close. 0 reason to skip classics season, just don't crash out next time

 

[Salvarani]

He has absolutely no chance to beat him in the TT.

Pog will have to hope Vinge’s earpiece works better next time or the wattmeter not showing the wrong numbers.

 

[Nick2413]

I like Pog but this Tour has been more of a reality check than a botched prep.

Stage 16 ITT was arguably Pog’s best performance this entire Tour. Loze was an actual bad day, but even if you remove it he’s been a solid few mins slower than Vingegaard for 2 years in a row now.

Also has never gained more than 30 seconds on him in the Tour when leader for their entire rivalry in 2.5 years. And it’s become quite clear he’s considerably slower on flats and descents now.

His only hope for beating Jonas at the Tour is illness/injury or a severely botched prep. He still may win again that way, but the other up and comers are also moving up rapidly and will not be a walk in the park. Time moves fast in cycling and even faster these days. I hope he continues to focus on the classics at least as much as now, and go for the 5 monuments and WC rather than put more eggs into the Tour basket.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

This is fine and all but frankly it’s disrespectful to Vingegaard to act like there was ever any chance of being in his league even under perfect preparation. Clinic or not, nobody was getting close this year.

Disrespectful?? Give over...and any way, what if it is? Why does he deserve respect? When he wins a few one day races in the spring I'll give him his due - until then......not for me.

 

[Nick2413]

Disrespectful?? Give over...and any way, what if it is? Why does he deserve respect? When he wins a few one day races in the spring I'll give him his due - until then......not for me.

Lol I’m not a “fan” either but he just put up the most dominant Tour in like 15 years, nobody missed out on beating him this year bc of bad prep. Classics and likeability have nothing to do with it.

 

[Miha81]

Lol I’m not a “fan” either but he just put up the most dominant Tour in like 15 years, nobody missed out on beating him this year bc of bad prep. Classics and likeability have nothing to do with it.

It is certanly back to the drawing boards for UAE.

Only they know how much is due to botched preparations and how much due to the Vinge extra stamina and recovering ability.

They will need to aply something special in order to win 2024 edition. I sometimes wonder if they are able to with Tadej as it looks that when he feels like going or wants to go there is nothing to stop him from doing so. Will he be able to wait patiently and eat into opponent like Vinge did?

 

[Didinho]

Good to bounce back with the win. Is he doing the Worlds? If he manages to win that it would still be a very impressive season.
And maybe riding Lombardia?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Good to bounce back with the win. Is he doing the Worlds? If he manages to win that it would still be a very impressive season.
And maybe riding Lombardia?

Lombardy is a must and he'll be the favourite to get the 3rd consecutive victory. He'll surely add a couple of Italian autumn classics before. Everything else looks uncertain (worlds included).

 

[Lequack]

He may not have won the GC, but he won our hearts

 

[theyoungest]

Disrespectful?? Give over...and any way, what if it is? Why does he deserve respect? When he wins a few one day races in the spring I'll give him his due - until then......not for me.

So basically if he turns into another Pogacar you'll respect him, if not, he doesn't deserve it... when did Contador ever win the Tour of Flanders? Or Andy Schleck? Or Chris Froome? Or Egan Bernal?

Pogacar has the qualities to do well in the spring classics, as well as winning or at least podiuming the Tour. Not many riders can do that. In fact, nobody else. You set the bar pretty high if that's what it takes to earn your respect.

 

[Miha81]

He may not have won the GC, but he won our hearts

TBH I thought he won't be able to compete today. Nice win for the morale in the rest of the season.

 

[Netserk]

He may not have won the GC, but he won our hearts

Your mountain sprinter wheelsucked Gall even harder than Vingegaard did. Quite a feat.

 

[Lequack]

Your mountain sprinter wheelsucked Gall even harder than Vingegaard did. Quite a feat.

Gall to UAE confirmed.

 

[Vudy]

I like Pog but this Tour has been more of a reality check than a botched prep.

Stage 16 ITT was arguably Pog’s best performance this entire Tour. Loze was an actual bad day, but even if you remove it he’s been a solid few mins slower than Vingegaard for 2 years in a row now.

Also has never gained more than 30 seconds on him in the Tour when leader for their entire rivalry in 2.5 years. And it’s become quite clear he’s considerably slower on flats and descents now.

His only hope for beating Jonas at the Tour is illness/injury or a severely botched prep. He still may win again that way, but the other up and comers are also moving up rapidly and will not be a walk in the park. Time moves fast in cycling and even faster these days. I hope he continues to focus on the classics at least as much as now, and go for the 5 monuments and WC rather than put more eggs into the Tour basket.

Or he moves to Jumbo Visma. /s

 

[Screecher]

Only 2 stage wins? Washed up...

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Only 2 stage wins? Washed up...

End of career looming but 3rd consecutive Lombardia would be a great end.
Nothing beats 4 white jerseys at the Tour though, historical feat

 

[SHAD0W93]

Another weakness I could see Jumbo try and say Pog has is his performance decreases when he’s depressed or down. UAE put stage 5 on hearing his GF crashed in the middle of the stage and said after stage 16 that he was down about the result and time loss. Further going down that rabbit hole, I don’t know if anyone has been depressed but it’s harder to do everything, even things that were routine before.



All together, I hoped he was going to win the Tour but came away with second again and two stages, plus white which was just a formality. Wish he could have got more but UAE and he screwed up on a couple stages, that’s how the cookie crumbles. Hopefully he has a good autumn.

 

[Rackham]

Another weakness I could see Jumbo try and say Pog has is his performance decreases when he’s depressed or down. UAE put stage 5 on hearing his GF crashed in the middle of the stage and said after stage 16 that he was down about the result and time loss. Further going down that rabbit hole, I don’t know if anyone has been depressed but it’s harder to do everything, even things that were routine before.



All together, I hoped he was going to win the Tour but came away with second again and two stages, plus white which was just a formality. Wish he could have got more but UAE and he screwed up on a couple stages, that’s how the cookie crumbles. Hopefully he has a good autumn.

Yeah. I agree regarding the depression part. I was thinking something similar whilst watching the finale of the stage today, i.e. Pog was subdued & I reckon Jumbo could have gone for the kill just to rub it in a little. In the end it was their leader who looked reticent to attack & risk a counter, which is absurd considering he had 7 minutes in GC.

I also believe Pog's collapse on Loze was mental more than physical, i.e. with the early crash which made him mentally switch off like "Vinge is so strong, now that I've hurt myself a bit I'm so, so screwed anyway".

That's how I saw it. It's little details at this level which make a huge, huge difference between going all in versus cracking. I also believe he felt really good in the ITT (his initial gap versus the rest was enormous) but those split times & the fact Vingegaard came so close to catching him must have been massively demoralizing on Tuesday evening.

 

[Didinho]

Hope this doesn’t take away anything from his attacking style in the next Tours.

 

[Red Rick]

Timeline for stage 5 doesn't match up at all.

Unless you're telling me Team DS is like "Take a bag from the soigneur on the right after the next left turn. Marie Blanque coming up, Felix make sure Tadej is on Jumbo's wheel. Tadej, by the way your girlfriend is in the hospital"