Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[SHAD0W93]

What stage are you talking about? Joux plane?

I think that one, the one Pog almost crashed into the stopped motorbikes and Vinge won the bonus seconds at the KoM.

 

[Froome]

I think that one, the one Pog almost crashed into the stopped motorbikes and Vinge won the bonus seconds at the KoM.

Ok, but what was the question? How would i consider, in what sense?

 

[sam6]

I think Pogi has a real chance in the Tour this year. Yes he lost a lot of time between 3 stages last year, but he got small gaps to Vingegaard last year several times and that gives me hope he can drop him if he is in slightly better form. Yes the tactics did play a part on the Tourmalet stage, but JV went super hard on the Tourmalet as they thought they could drop Pogi and couldn't, and then Vingegaard wore himself out on the front when he had planned to be solo. This should be the template for Pogi. Make them drop him. If Visma never drop him, Pogi wins on bonus seconds so the onus is on them to drop him. This should cause another few stages like the Tourmalet if Pogi is strong enough where Vingo wears himself out and then Pogi makes use of his superior explosivity to gain 20 seconds. That twice and 1 minute on the gravel stage + a few bonuses and Pogi should win. As for the Giro thing, I think what will help Pogi is that he is focusing on Grand tours all year and not on the Tour of Flanders. It's great he races that, but training for a completely different type of race doesn't help his Tour chances. The Giro is not that hard this year and that racing under his belt might actually be good for him for the Tour, and certainly a better prep than focusing on Flanders all winter

 

[SHAD0W93]

Ok, but what was the question? How would i consider, in what sense?

Would you say Pogacar dropped Vingegaard in that sense? Pog was closer than Vinge in 2021 and an actual threat before sitting up and allowing Vinge to come back on. Yet you’re saying Vinge dropped Pogacar when he was zero GC threat and had a descent to be caught back on, which he was.


So is any time a rider many minutes down on GC and they attack and be let go them dropping the others?

 

[skippo12]

I think Pogacar has shown last season and this season that his climbing peak can be basically on par with Vingegaard, if he has a monster bonk again it's basically irrelevant to talk the ifs and whats of small margins.
His main problem is that Vingegaard the last two seasons has time trialled like a prime Indurain/Ullrich hybrid in the Tour and moped the floor with Pogi. And an even bigger issue is that Pogacar has so far shown no indication whatsoever that he might be capable of doing back to back GTs at 100%. So unless he can somehow magically make the Giro a big preparation race I don't see him matching up with the skeletor at all.

Since you mentioned Ullrich. An overweight Pog in the Giro would be hilarious to watch. Doing a groupetto group ride with a few select stages where he decides to do some intervals.

 

[sam6]

Since you mentioned Ullrich. An overweight Pog in the Giro would be hilarious to watch. Doing a groupetto group ride with a few select stages where he decides to do some intervals.

Honestly, no GC team will pull much other than UAE in the Giro. If he wants an easy ride, just let some crap break win by 20 minutes and ride at a steady pace in the bunch every other stage

 

[kn0s]

Yet it was stage 11 and Vinge was a non-factor at that point. People put too much stock into that when it hasn’t really occurred for other riders who are down a lot on GC who attack and are let go.

So would you consider the stage Pog attacked Vinge on and Vinge caught back up before the top of the climb after sitting up Vinge being dropped?

Did you see the stage? Go back and look at pogi, this is not "I will let him go" is was "this is too much, I can't" it's easy to see just looking at it.

This moment is important because it is the basis of Jumbos attempt in 22. They now knew they had a guy who could do the nasty to pogi.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Did you see the stage? Go back and look at pogi, this is not "I will let him go" is was "this is too much, I can't" it's easy to see just looking at it.

This moment is important because it is the basis of Jumbos attempt in 22. They now knew they had a guy who could do the nasty to pogi.

I did, Pog has no reason to keep riding and going into the red. Vingegaard was zero threat and proved that later by being unable to drop Pogacar.

Jumbos attempt was one two punching Pogacar. Only after Vingegaard got the lead did they start riding hard when Pogacar had to attack (unsuccessfully) to gain the time back. 2023 Jumbo rode hard every single stage to make Pogacar crack.

 

[kn0s]

I think Pogi has a real chance in the Tour this year. Yes he lost a lot of time between 3 stages last year, but he got small gaps to Vingegaard last year several times and that gives me hope he can drop him if he is in slightly better form. Yes the tactics did play a part on the Tourmalet stage, but JV went super hard on the Tourmalet as they thought they could drop Pogi and couldn't, and then Vingegaard wore himself out on the front when he had planned to be solo. This should be the template for Pogi. Make them drop him. If Visma never drop him, Pogi wins on bonus seconds so the onus is on them to drop him. This should cause another few stages like the Tourmalet if Pogi is strong enough where Vingo wears himself out and then Pogi makes use of his superior explosivity to gain 20 seconds. That twice and 1 minute on the gravel stage + a few bonuses and Pogi should win. As for the Giro thing, I think what will help Pogi is that he is focusing on Grand tours all year and not on the Tour of Flanders. It's great he races that, but training for a completely different type of race doesn't help his Tour chances. The Giro is not that hard this year and that racing under his belt might actually be good for him for the Tour, and certainly a better prep than focusing on Flanders all winter

Yes the tactics on Tourmalet was very bad. As Jonas admitted, they got overconfident. You also have to factor in the moster performance he did the day before, where he basically won the tour.

 

[kn0s]

I did, Pog has no reason to keep riding and going into the red. Vingegaard was zero threat and proved that later by being unable to drop Pogacar.

Jumbos attempt was one two punching Pogacar. Only after Vingegaard got the lead did they start riding hard when Pogacar had to attack (unsuccessfully) to gain the time back. 2023 Jumbo rode hard every single stage to make Pogacar crack.

Exactly, he was not able to follow or he would have. That was the original point by Froome. You can't spin this as "he would have, if he was a threat" because it was obvious he couldn't follow.

What Jumbo took away from that tour was that Jonas could match Pogi after he was no longer a dom for Roglic and recoverd from his early crash. He also was physically capable of dropping him. This was not known before hand. They have said as much before.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Regarding Pog vs Vingo rivalry. It seems they make hard efforts only if one is able do drop the other. As we saw last year there's a tactical deadlock if both ride together: they don't want to cooperate and neither wants to lead (Vingo clearly had a fear of leading since Tourmalet stage and has a habit of looking back at Pogi all the time!), which would make life easier for other riders. This could lead to some comical situations at this year's Tour but it's yet to be seen how much Giro will drain Pog. And Vingo could probably still count on bazooka power during the last stage.

 

[kn0s]

Regarding Pog vs Vingo rivalry. It seems they make hard efforts only if one is able do drop the other. As we saw last year there's a tactical deadlock if both ride together: they don't want to cooperate and neither wants to lead (Vingo clearly had a fear of leading since Tourmalet stage and has a habit of looking back at Pogi all the time!), which would make life easier for other riders. This could lead to some comical situations at this year's Tour but it's yet to be seen how much Giro will drain Pog. And Vingo could probably still count on bazooka power during the last stage.

Well Pogacar is very scary, so it's understandable. I could see them ride in there own bubble again. Lets hope they get punished if they do.

 

[mou]

just to let you know that Pog is sick, he caught a cold in the rain the other day and herpes broke out on his lip again, now how will it be today and tomorrow?, *** Catalonia...

 

[Lequack]

I guess Soler will have to forego his chances again to stay with Pog. #FreeSoler

 

[SHAD0W93]

Exactly, he was not able to follow or he would have. That was the original point by Froome. You can't spin this as "he would have, if he was a threat" because it was obvious he couldn't follow.

What Jumbo took away from that tour was that Jonas could match Pogi after he was no longer a dom for Roglic and recoverd from his early crash. He also was physically capable of dropping him. This was not known before hand. They have said as much before.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

just to let you know that Pog is sick, he caught a cold in the rain the other day and herpes broke out on his lip again, now how will it be today and tomorrow?, *** Catalonia...

Well, now he will have to wait 'till the last 500m before completly destroyng everyone in a sprint

 

[AmRacer]

Well, now he will have to wait 'till the last 500m before completly destroyng everyone in a sprint

Rogla isn't racing.

 

[Netserk]

Yet it was stage 11 and Vinge was a non-factor at that point. People put too much stock into that when it hasn’t really occurred for other riders who are down a lot on GC who attack and are let go.

So would you consider the stage Pog attacked Vinge on and Vinge caught back up before the top of the climb after sitting up Vinge being dropped?

There was no letting go on Ventoux. Just rewatch it.

Had he caught him again before the top, then your comparison with Joux-Plane would make sense.

 

[Offline]

just to let you know that Pog is sick, he caught a cold in the rain the other day and herpes broke out on his lip again, now how will it be today and tomorrow?, *** Catalonia...

DNS?

 

[AmRacer]

500m? Are you crazy? Rogla isn't that inefficient. 50m, stop power measurement, no celebration, job done. Mailman doesn't celebrate when he delivers the mail

Karl Malone did celebrate 🥳

 

[Froome]

Would you say Pogacar dropped Vingegaard in that sense? Pog was closer than Vinge in 2021 and an actual threat before sitting up and allowing Vinge to come back on. Yet you’re saying Vinge dropped Pogacar when he was zero GC threat and had a descent to be caught back on, which he was.


So is any time a rider many minutes down on GC and they attack and be let go them dropping the others?

Vingegaard caught Pogacar 2 km from the top (it's not a good comparation), the difference were always small. Vingegaard choosed to go in in his pace, because Pogacar were really strong on that day and have a good aceleration. So he trusted in his pace. They would broke pantani's record if they didn’t stop. Pogacar was doing almost 6.5 w/kg during those 28 min before being caught by Vingegaard.

 

[yaf]

just to let you know that Pog is sick, he caught a cold in the rain the other day and herpes broke out on his lip again, now how will it be today and tomorrow?, *** Catalonia...

I saw herpes in his lips yesterday and at the finish heard him saying the stage was the hardest of all week. Cold sores often reduce immune system and reoccur often. i think that was 1 of the reasons he lost the tour last year. Interesting to see how he gets over it this year.

 

[Offline]

DNS?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1771497384318484836

View: https://twitter.com/VoltaCatalunya/status/1771497384318484836

 

[Salvarani]

I saw herpes in his lips yesterday and at the finish heard him saying the stage was the hardest of all week. Cold sores often reduce immune system and reoccur often. i think that was 1 of the reasons he lost the tour last year. Interesting to see how he gets over it this year.

Usually cold sores or herpes can appear like 1-2 times every year, if you are prone to them, and they can appear pretty much any time of the year.

However, there can be different factors for it. It doesnt necessarily have to be because of a lower immune system or being sick.

For example, heat can cause an outbreak. Like wearing your jacket over your lip and breathing underneath, when it is cold or raining, or things like wearing a face mask.

The most plausible explanation for his Tour loss last season was not having enough base after his L-B-L. Affecting his recovery after the ITT and the heat.

After the win was out of reach, he still performed very well in the last days of the Tour and later at the Worlds.

 

[Red Rick]

Usually cold sores or herpes can appear like 1-2 times every year, if you are prone to them, and they can appear pretty much any time of the year.

However, there can be different factors for it. It doesnt necessarily have to be because of a lower immune system or being sick.

For example, heat can cause an outbreak. Like wearing your jacket over your lip and breathing underneath, when it is cold or raining, or things like wearing a face mask.

The most plausible explanation for his Tour loss last season was not having enough base after his L-B-L. Affecting his recovery after the ITT and the heat.

After the win was out of reach, he still performed very well in the last days of the Tour and later at the Worlds.

More likely he lacked high intensity work and race specific training. You don't lose a training base that quickly and base training is the first thing he could do on the rollers.

If you really lack a training base you just get worse during a GT, not better after a shaky first few days, and you don't win stage 20 or recover well enough to get 3rd at the WC 2 weeks later.