Teams & Riders Pogačar as GOAT: already, never, or when?

[Elos Anjos]

How about you don't immediately feel attacked when someone disagrees with you? Keep it about the topic, instead of making it personal.

I'm just saying that as long as you don't have the palmares, you can't be called the GOAT. Not to mention this GOAT wasn't even able to win the TDF the past 2 years. Maybe start with winning that this year, and thus the double, before even being remotely mentioned in the same sentence as Merckx.


Because they didn't have someone like Merckx before him.

I didn't. But I'm demanding with the arguments presented. Namely when you make ludicrous counter examples like winning junior racings or distancing MVDP in RVV by merely 16s. That's a bit insulting when one is trying to argue.

Again: when anyone (like me) calls Pogacar a GOAT it doesn't mean he is actually the GOAT, but a statement about 1) his potential as given by his current palmares to 2) actually be the GOAT in the near future. You can attribute the GOAT status to anyone rider but if his palmares doesn't back it, your belief is not well grounded.

So of course "Pogacar is the GOAT" is a statement about future prospects that can thus prove to be false, either because:
1) he's not actually GOAT material
2) because someone better came along
3) he will have an accident
4) he will be unlucky
5 he will begin to fade.

 

[Berniece]

Again: when anyone (like me) calls Pogacar a GOAT it doesn't mean he is actually the GOAT, but a statement about 1) his potential as given by his current palmares to 2) actually be the GOAT in the near future. You can attribute the GOAT status to anyone rider but if his palmares doesn't back it, your belief is not well grounded.

So of course "Pogacar is the GOAT" is a statement about future prospects that can thus prove to be false, either because:
1) he's not actually GOAT material
2) because someone better came along
3) he will have an accident
4) he will be unlucky
5 he will begin to fade.

That is your definition of GOAT. Mine is that there can only be 1 GOAT, and you earn that by being the greatest of all time. Not in a couple of years, just from the beginning of time to now. Pogacar is currently having an amazing season, and is still not close to the best seasons of Merckx. If he indeed wins the TDF and WC, and Lombardia, one could say it's one of the best seasons ever. But that's a bit premature.

 

[Elos Anjos]

That is your definition of GOAT. Mine is that there can only be 1 GOAT, and you earn that by being the greatest of all time. Not in a couple of years, just from the beginning of time to now. Pogacar is currently having an amazing season, and is still not close to the best seasons of Merckx. If he indeed wins the TDF and WC, and Lombardia, one could say it's one of the best seasons ever. But that's a bit premature.

Doesn't the discussion about GOATs has a bearing on the very criteria for defining what a GOAT is?

Certainly we all agree that in Merckx's time it was possible for an all-rounder to win flat sprints. Not anymore.

Just like when you compare different decades for economic prosperity, you have to adjust to inflation in order to assess when did you have more purchasing power.

 

[Berniece]

Doesn't the discussion about GOATs has a bearing on the very criteria for defining what a GOAT is?

Certainly we all agree that in Merckx's time it was possible for an all-rounder to win flat sprints. Not anymore.

Just like when you compare different decades for economic prosperity, you have to adjust to inflation in order to assess when did you have more purchasing power.

If we are discrediting other times because the game changed then it's easier to just say both of them were the best of their generation.

 

[Salvarani]

All I know is that there is one GOAT and his name is Tadej Pogacar.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Yet another person stating that Pogocar and Merckx comparisons are grounded. Sorry haters

French expert compares Tadej Pogacar's Giro d'Italia reigning to Eddy Merckx era: "50 years later and there is another cannibal"

Tadej Pogacar's reigning at Giro d'Italia was by no

cyclinguptodate.com

"The first elements that distinguish them are the smile of one, the marble face of the other, the taste for play of one and the work of the other, the humor of one, the seriousness of the other, the apparent lightness of one, the earthy density of the other."

 

[Salvarani]

Haters so mad, love it.

Pog the GOAT and keeps winning.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Haters so mad, love it.

Pog the GOAT and keeps winning.

He's not the GOAT yet

He is however the Greatest of His Time

 

[Salvarani]

He's not the GOAT yet

He is however the Greatest of His Time

Your opinion, cool.

I will call him the GOAT, because he is.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Your opinion, cool.

I will call him the GOAT, because he is.

Why do I have a feeling you're one of those guys who believe Ronaldo is the GOAT of football

 

[Salvarani]

Why do I have a feeling you're one of those guys who believe Ronaldo is the GOAT of football

Not at all. Personal attack is not classy. Not what we were talking about.

I would say Messi probably though. Followed by Maradona and Pelé.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Not at all. Personal attack is not classy. Not what we were talking about.

I would say Messi probably though. Followed by Maradona and Pelé.

There are 2 guys head and shoulder above the rest when it comes to the Goat discussion. Pogacar is currently sniffing their kneecaps.

 

[Froome]

Why do I have a feeling you're one of those guys who believe Ronaldo is the GOAT of football

Actually Ronaldo o fenómeno(not the other Ronaldo) had the potential to be the GOAT, but the injuries didn't let that happen.

 

[snipeheem]

Actually Ronaldo o fenómeno(not the other Ronaldo) had the potential to be the GOAT, but the injuries didn't let that happen.

He was unreal

 

[ice&fire]

Haters so mad, love it.

Pog the GOAT and keeps winning.

That's what kids who think the world didn't exist before their oldest memories believe.

Love it.

 

[Salvarani]

That's what kids who think the world didn't exist before their oldest memories believe.

Love it.

Not at all, but typical old mentality to think that way and never move forward.

You gotta both pay homage and learn from history, but also embrace change and the new ways.

Love it, love it.

 

[ice&fire]

Not at all, but typical old mentality to think that way and never move forward.

You gotta both pay homage and learn from history, but also embrace change and the new ways.

Love it, love it.

It is possible to appreciate and embrace change and be aware that "all time" started more than 40 years ago.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Not at all, but typical old mentality to think that way and never move forward.

You gotta both pay homage and learn from history, but also embrace change and the new ways.

Love it, love it.

Irony oh irony

You claim you need to pay hommage to history, but you're ignoring it. You can't possibly declare Pogi the goat. I embrace change aswell, and the new way of cycling is different and Pogi definitely is the most talented.

But when the 2 biggest Goat contenders have both won double of his GTs and more monuments, what did you learn from history?

(Also, one of them had the slight incovenience of living through the second world war)

 

[Froome]

9'56"? Big deal! In 1914 Alfonso Calzolari won the Giro by 1h57'26".

Sorry Mercx, Alfonso Calzolari is the new GOAT.
The GOAT!

 

[Salvarani]

It is possible to appreciate and embrace change and be aware that "all time" started more than 40 years ago.

I am aware and can still say what I want. Have an opinion. As can you.

You just sound mad though. Ignore me if it bothers you.

 

[Salvarani]

Irony oh irony

You claim you need to pay hommage to history, but you're ignoring it. You can't possibly declare Pogi the goat. I embrace change aswell, and the new way of cycling is different and Pogi definitely is the most talented.

But when the 2 biggest Goat contenders have both won double of his GTs and more monuments, what did you learn from history?

(Also, one of them had the slight incovenience of living through the second world war)

No matter how you twist and turn it.

He is the GOAT

 

[Forever The Best]

He has a long way to go to become one of the GOATs (for that he needs to get a lot more big wins and maybe have a Giro-Tour), but as someone who started watching in 2011, I think he is the best cyclist I've ever seen (Vingegaard is better in GTs but nowhere in classics, MVDP nowhere in GTs etc.). If he wins the Giro tomorrow, this will be his 9th big win.

 

[SafeBet]

He has a long way to go to become one of the GOATs (for that he needs to get a lot more big wins and maybe have a Giro-Tour), but as someone who started watching in 2011, I think he is the best cyclist I've ever seen (Vingegaard is better in GTs but nowhere in classics, MVDP nowhere in GTs etc.). If he wins the Giro tomorrow, this will be his 9th big win.

I've started watching in 1991 and he's 100% the best cyclist I've ever seen.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He is the best of modern cycling (since the 90's), he doesn't have the best palmares but he is on his way to get it. Somewhat, his heavy classics schedule is ruining his chances of grabbing more GT's (and the presence of Vingegaard of course).

 

[AmRacer]

He is the best of modern cycling (since the 90's), he doesn't have the best palmares but he is on his way to get it. Somewhat, his heavy classics schedule is ruining his chances of grabbing more GT's (and the presence of Vingegaard of course).

He did the classics last year because he wanted to win them, and he did. So from this year and on, he won't ride classics he already has won. LBL is an exception.