Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

Page 916 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
13,080
17,876
22,180
YavorD said:
Lol, no.
Even this year Vingegaard stayed with Pogacar in the hilly stages. Pogacar only dropped him in the high mountains so by your logic Vingegaard should be able to follow Pogacar in week 1.
Click to expand...
This. I don't believe Pogacar will be able to drop Vingegaard in the first week. However I also think Vingegaard will lose 15 seconds to Pogacar in the TT, so he must drop Pogacar to win the Tour.
 
Cookster15

Cookster15

Moderator
May 14, 2011
6,125
6,635
23,180
Peyroteo94 said:
This. I don't believe Pogacar will be able to drop Vingegaard in the first week. However I also think Vingegaard will lose 15 seconds to Pogacar in the TT, so he must drop Pogacar to win the Tour.
Click to expand...
If Vingegaard can’t drop Pogacar on long climbs at altitude then he has no hope whatsoever. The TT is too short to make any difference.

Looking at the route I think Vingegaard will target stage 16 (Ventoux) and 18 - Pogacar’s kryponite Col de la Loze.

But right now we just need to hope they both come to the Tour with uninterrupted prep. It’s only December 😉
 
  • Like
Reactions: Poursuivant, Tymek and Miss Violet Smith
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
13,080
17,876
22,180
Cookster15 said:
If Vingegaard can’t drop Pogacar on long climbs at altitude then he has no hope whatsoever. The TT is too short to make any difference.

Looking at the route I think Vingegaard will target stage 16 (Ventoux) and 18 - Pogacar’s kryponite Col de la Loze.

But right now we just need to hope they both come to the Tour with uninterrupted prep. It’s only December 😉
Click to expand...
Mont Ventoux is the perfect stage for Pogacar. No way, he will get dropped there. Stage 18 is Vingegaard's only hope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brayko, SHAD0W93 and Cookster15
James M

James M

Jun 17, 2024
1,207
2,810
8,180
Cookster15 said:
Yes 2021 TdF stage 8 was when Pogacar destroyed every GC contender by over 3 minutes. Vingegaard was healthy.

Vingegaard’s crash can’t have been that serious else he would not have been able to finish with the GC group that day, briefly gap Pog on Ventoux nor beaten him in the stage 20 TT. 2024 Pog was hugely better than in 2021 - just as Mou promised ;) .

Vingegaard's recovery from his April crash injuries was miraculous. But don't let his crash fool you, he was still at his best ever level on stage 15 but ran out of base load conditioning on stages 19 and 20. After the Bonette stage he admitted he wasn't as good as on the PdB. And in the stage 21 Nice TT he still beat Remco.

Vingegaard dropped 3 minutes on the last three stages. This is where he would improve hugely if he was "healthy". But he would still have lost the Tour by 3 minutes against this Pogacar. If Pog can replicate his 2024 level I can't see Vingegaard beating him.
Click to expand...
Exactly on point my man. Vingegaard won one year with surperior team and pog riding like a lunatic(also roglic crashed) and 2023 when pog rode hurt its not relevant at all anymore if there was something actual relevant then cool but when Pogacar has raised the bars 5 times since then, setting such insane numbers that even after watching several of the things accur its almost hard to believe thats how good he is. Might aswell say Roglic can beat him too since he did in 2019 if were not factoring real numbers and levels when the gap is so gigantic.

Thing is in all honesty for me personally its just silly, if it would be close etc I would entertain for the sake of it but its so far from being close to any numbers at all, the gap is gigantic and he did it while doing the giro first, numbers are so extremely far apart - If he show up in 2024 form any discussion is just pointless to me he can drop Vingegaard whenever and where he wants sorry thats just based on numbers and what I think and clearly numbers (not hopium), watching last year the level Pogacar was on weve never seen anything like it before thats just the truth, in cycling ever so thats no disrespect to anyone, its just a lot of hope to a few people which is okei, but if Pogacar also just gets better even which many things suggest even judging from WC(100km solo bonkers..) and lombardia even and if thats the case for next year I mean forget about It then. The gap is simply gigantic as it is purely from numbers that its not even worth to entertain it just becomes funny and with all respect a pointless discussion for me at least and in reality is not a discussion at all.

He just had the best season of all time in a fashion its hard to believe was even real after watching it even, from Strade, giro/tour numbers, WC (100km..) to Lombardia

To me Jonas is really really good while Pogacar just is the best/strongest of all time, and in reality not close at all.
Its level to things. It is what it is move on.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan, scribers and Cookster15
James M

James M

Jun 17, 2024
1,207
2,810
8,180
Froome said:
But, Vingegaard was 10× more hurt in the Tour 2024 than Pogacar in the Tour 2023, and you think is irrelevant, and still lost with a lower gap.
Click to expand...
If you think thats the same thanks for proving my point how pointless this is. Pogacar bonked regardless of jonas, roglic would beat him too and Evenepoel it doesnt mean anything towards this, he would with no altitude/riding hurt, just be real man it becomes so much better then. Pog 24 dropped Vingegaard and everyone else on every single mountains(while jonas producing better numbers than he ever had and still it wasnt remotely close..no matter what you say thats still facts.), setting record numbers on each you cant say its the same and expecting to be taken serious from me. Its far from the same, just move on dude this is a dead end, you might end up enjoying it more.

You watched this year aswell i wont bother about this anymore my last reply on this hopeful thinking stuff ill agree on lets HOPE that it will be somewhat close.😅

Might aswell discuss that roglic will beat him if Pog show up in 24 form since he beat him in 19, its just as silly to me and screams one thing
 
Last edited:
Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
4,247
5,591
15,180
James M said:
If you think thats the same thanks for proving my point how pointless this is. Pogacar bonked regardless of jonas, roglic would beat him too and Evenepoel it doesnt mean anything towards this, he would with no altitude/riding hurt, just be real man it becomes so much better then. Pog 24 dropped Vingegaard and everyone else on every single mountains(while jonas producing better numbers than he ever had and still it wasnt remotely close..), setting record numbers on each you cant say its the same and expecting to be taken serious from me. Its far from the same, just move on dude this is a dead end, you might end up enjoying it more.

You watched this year aswell i wont bother about this anymore my last reply on this hopeful thinking stuff ill agree on lets HOPE that it will be somewhat close.😅

Might aswell discuss that roglic will beat him if Pog show up in 24 form since he beat him in 19, its just as silly to me and just screams one thing if were being real.

Jonas is really great, pogacar is just two times better and happens to be the best of all time it is what it is, simply from a factual standpoint so time to move on.
Click to expand...
Pogacar was also in his best shape ever in the Tour 2023, in terms of power numbers, so by your logic, he wasn't affected by the wrist, since you think Vingegaard wasn't affected in terms of shape in the Tour 2024, by the crash he had in April.

Nevertheless, is inquestionable someone definitely can't be in top shape in the Tour, after spending 2 weeks without training in the intensive care of a hospital, losing muscle mass who wasn't 100% recovered until the Tour.

In the case of Pogacar, the injuries were less severe. It was just the wrist, and he was training in the turbo very soon.
 
James M

James M

Jun 17, 2024
1,207
2,810
8,180
Froome said:
Pogacar was also in his best shape ever in the Tour 2023, in terms of power numbers, so by your logic, he wasn't affected by the wrist, since you think Vingegaard wasn't affected in terms of shape in the Tour 2024, by the crash he had in April.

Nevertheless, is inquestionable someone definitely can't be in top shape in the Tour, after spending 2 weeks without training in the intensive care of a hospital, losing muscle mass who wasn't 100% recovered until the Tour.

In the case of Pogacar, the injuries were less severe. It was just the wrist, and he was training in the turbo very soon.
Click to expand...
Vingegaard is really good its just that Pogacar is the factually after this season the best of all time, Vingegaard is still great in mye eyes too but its simply levels to this its really easy. I see what your doing and ill pass its pointless to me.

You also said Vingegaard during entire Tour would win etc its okei,Evenepoel would win the WC and Lombardia its fine everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thats how it should be its all good mate. Happy holidays.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cookster15 and Salvarani
YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
2,238
2,938
17,180
Froome said:
Pogacar was also in his best shape ever in the Tour 2023, in terms of power numbers, so by your logic, he wasn't affected by the wrist, since you think Vingegaard wasn't affected in terms of shape in the Tour 2024, by the crash he had in April.
Click to expand...

So by your logic Pogacar was in top shape in 2023 and Vingegaard was in (very close to) top shape in 2024?

Vingegaard was in very good shape through the Tour. He casually catched Pogacar on stage 11, even beat him in a sprint and I remember stage 9 when he casually reeled in Pog and Evenepoel on a relatively flat terrain. No to mention he was the last GT contender to stay with Pogacar on the gravel.
Now, I have no doubt that Vingegaard can be (much) better without the crash but I don't think he can beat Pogacar if slovenian is able to repeat his power numbers (which I kinda doubt tbh).

Edit: This is not to say Pogacar is levels above Vingegaard. It's just that I don't believe you can drop Pogacar if he reaches his PdB numbers. He could eventually stay with him but he actually needs to drop him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Salvarani
Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
4,247
5,591
15,180
YavorD said:
So by your logic Pogacar was in top shape in 2023 and Vingegaard was in (very close to) top shape in 2024?

Vingegaard was in very good shape through the Tour. He casually catched Pogacar on stage 11, even beat him in a sprint and I remember stage 9 when he casually reeled in Pog and Evenepoel on a relatively flat terrain. No to mention he was the last GT contender to stay with Pogacar on the gravel.
Now, I have no doubt that Vingegaard can be (much) better without the crash but I don't think he can beat Pogacar if slovenian is able to repeat his power numbers (which I kinda doubt tbh).

Edit: This is not to say Pogacar is levels above Vingegaard. It's just that I don't believe you can drop Pogacar if he reaches his PdB numbers. He could eventually stay with him but he actually needs to drop him.
Click to expand...
I am not sure Pogacar was in his best shape in the Tour 2023 but he had more chances of being in top shape, since he could train very soon in the turbo. The injuries weren't that severe compared to Vingegaard.

Vingegaard i am certainly sure he wasn't in his best shape he could be, for the obvious reasons. He couldn't even recover all of the muscle mass.
 
Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
4,247
5,591
15,180
James M said:
Vingegaard is really good its just that Pogacar is the factually after this season the best of all time, Vingegaard is still great in mye eyes too but its simply levels to this its really easy. I see what your doing and ill pass its pointless to me.

You also said Vingegaard during entire Tour would win etc its okei,Evenepoel would win the WC and Lombardia its fine everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thats how it should be its all good mate. Happy holidays.
Click to expand...
You didn't refute any arguments i said. If you don't refute any argument i said, the discussion in the forum is pointless.
 
A

AmRacer

Sep 1, 2023
4,776
4,962
14,180
Froome said:
You didn't refute any arguments i said. If you don't refute any argument i said, the discussion in the forum is pointless.
Click to expand...
That's how internet works, do keep up. 😅

Pogi without a Giro in his legs will do a better Tour 2025. A healthy Jonas will do a better Tour 2025, that's if he doesn't do the Giro.

The Giro didn't stop Pogi winning the tour, partly because of Jonas crash. But if you count minutes and seconds, the Giro had an impact on Pogi's Tour.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scribers
Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
4,247
5,591
15,180
AmRacer said:
That's how internet works, do keep up. 😅

Pogi without a Giro in his legs will do a better Tour 2025. A healthy Jonas will do a better Tour 2025, that's if he doesn't do the Giro.

The Giro didn't stop Pogi winning the tour, partly because of Jonas crash. But if you count minutes and seconds, the Giro had an impact on Pogi's Tour.
Click to expand...
The Giro 2024 was just training for him.
 
YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
2,238
2,938
17,180
AmRacer said:
Pogi without a Giro in his legs will do a better Tour 2025. A healthy Jonas will do a better Tour 2025, that's if he doesn't do the Giro.
Click to expand...

I don't think he'll necessarily be better . That Giro looked like a training for him and even more importantly, he was preparing only for GT's.
Next year he'll put much emphasis on the classics and I'm not sure what the impact will be on the Tour.
 
Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
4,247
5,591
15,180
AmRacer said:
Yeah, but still it means something when you count minutes and seconds. The Giro isn't the best possible traning for the Tour.
Click to expand...
Normally the Giro isn't the best possible training for the Tour, but this year it wasn't the case for some reasons, looking at the route and competition.

The power numbers in the Tour were very high compared to the numbers he did in the Giro.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom