Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Cycling111]

The fact his fans are now starting to question his race schedule suggests chasing all these one day races so aggressively this season might not be the smartest thing.

You have to all remember he's literally leaving 100% guaranteed wins in races like Paris-Nice, Catalunya and Itzulia on the side when he chases the classics. Just imagine how many WT wins he could have by now when you addition the overall GC + innevitable stage wins he'd get? He'd be destroying records by a much greater margin than he already is. And Amstel is in no way more prestigious than a win in any of those stage races either.

I still think Pog can demolish Liège, mind (after all he was beaten by Vinge at le Lioran in the Tour last year and then demolished everyone a few days later in the Pyrenees), but the "all-in on one day racing" strategy only works if he wins them. Right now, he's lost 3 out of the last 4 he competed in.

I only question Amstel and Flecha, I did so before Amstel.
I never question MSR, Flanders and Roubaix, and if Pogacar´s fans question this hey should like other riders.

Pogacar is more than just easy wins in Paris-Nice.
If Pogacar wins four Tours like Froome, he won't transcend the same level as Froome, better.
Indurain won five Tours, and no one considers him at the level of Hinault. There you have the answer.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Obviously disappointing today but for such a post mortem about finishing second by a wheel rim tells a lot about his elevated status.

With hindsight he definitely should have stuck to the plan of racing more cagily and not responded to the meme attack from Alaphillipe that nobody still believes he can sustain.

He was cooked and almost win the race. I'm pretty sure he will be good in July.

 

[Rou]

It's not that he lost. What hurts him more is that he was beaten by Skjelmose who was able to stay with Remco. It is completely different to lose against MVDP in San Remo and Roubaix and to lose against Mattias in AGR.

 

[Salvarani]

I'm not but we will have a clear picture in 1 week

He can still win, I hope so, but he is not the favorite anymore. He is facing a great rider in Remco for these races. Similar to MVDP on the cobbles.

That he is at the end of a tough racing schedule and it is the first time he riding this schedule, are two big reasons to be cautious.

I have no doubt about that he will try his best.

But he will definitely have to think once or twice about it in the future on how his schedule should look like a bit more.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's not that he lost. What hurts him more is that he was beaten by Skjelmose who was able to stay with Remco. It is completely different to lose against MVDP in San Remo and Roubaix and to lose against Mattias in AGR.

He was cooked mate.

 

[scribers]

I only question Amstel and Flecha, I did so before Amstel.
I never question MSR, Flanders and Roubaix, and if Pogacar´s fans question this hey should like other riders.

Pogacar is more than just easy wins in Paris-Nice.
If Pogacar wins four Tours like Froome, he won't transcend the same level as Froome, better.
Indurain won five Tours, and no one considers him at the level of Hinault. There you have the answer.

Plus LA won july 7x. How hollow will anything less or equal be?

 

[Peyroteo94]

He can still win, I hope so, but he is not the favorite anymore. He is facing a great rider in Remco for these races. Similar to MVDP on the cobbles.

That he is at the end of a tough racing schedule and it is the first time he riding this schedule, are two big reasons to be cautious.

I have no doubt about that he will try his best.

But he will definitely have to think once or twice about it in the future on how his schedule should look like a bit more.

I have a serious doubt about Remco dropping him.

 

[Cycling111]

Kj masters visma are certainly licking their chops. Be damned the sport outside of July.

If Pogacar saw Paris-Nice, he must fear Almeida and Jorgenson more than Vingegaard.

Almeida vs Jorgenson in TDF.

 

[Salvarani]

I have a serious doubt about Remco dropping him.

As I said, it is uncharted territory for Pog now and things can happen. I hope not and that he will be good, but I wouldnt be saying all of that like you are doing right now.

 

[Rou]

If Armstrong's case did not come open we would very seriously be considering him now as one of the GOATS. Not because he was the most complete but because he elevated cycling to a level that it has never reached before and after him. Hate him or love him. There is cycling before and after Armstrong era.

 

[Rackham]

I only question Amstel and Flecha, I did so before Amstel.
I never question MSR, Flanders and Roubaix, and if Pogacar´s fans question this hey should like other riders.

Pogacar is more than just easy wins in Paris-Nice.
If Pogacar wins four Tours like Froome, he won't transcend the same level as Froome, better.
Indurain won five Tours, and no one considers him at the level of Hinault. There you have the answer.

This is a bit off-topic but I don't think cycling works in a linear hierarchy like this. There's very real and evident reasons 'why' comparing Hinault and Indurain is pretty much outright impossible because of the decade separating them (and what we all know happened in the early 1990's). There's this whole other side to cycling that makes 1:1 comparisons between 'greats' pretty much impossible.

For Pog and UAE, my advice to anyone in their position (considering how strong he is) would be to chase and accumulate GT's > everything else. Doing two a year, definitely.

If it was my choice I'd take a guarantee win the Giro over losing Roubaix. Every time.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

His schedule should be:
UAE Tour
SB
MSR
RVV
PR
LBL

Now I can see that. With 2 weeks after PR, he would be okay

Well, I said so a few days ago. Full focus on Liege instead of spending energy after RVV + PR double

 

[Cycling111]

Problem isn't so much schedule as much as it is trying to win Amstel itself in a way too flashy way. He didn't need to do more than make a preselection on the Keutenberg and keep rotation going to then burn everyone else on the final Cauberg.

In the preview, he said he was fatigued due to PR and wouldn't attack early today.

He overestimated Alaphilippe; he's not the same as before. And I think he wanted to avoid further attacks because he was left without a team.

The same thing happened in Zurich, with different circumstances (earpiece, it's harder to organize a chase). As soon as Slovenia disintegrated, he attacked and went toTratnik.

I wouldn't make such a big deal about today. Without PR, I think Pogacar could have won alone after Alaphilippe's attack, but with PR, he had to do it the way he thought, and he didn't do what he announced in the preview.
I think he won't be 100% at Liege because he's been competing for weeks, but I also think he won't be as fatigued as he was today.

 

[Medvind]

Still a bit puzzled why they decided that Pog should still do all three ardennes races after it was decided he should ride P-R. Surely they knew P-R is a brutal race that is very hard on the body and they couldn't know how Pog would react to it since he has never done it before. Fear they might push Pog a little bit too much and that it might backfire (already did a bit today). But maybe they had the option of dropping AGR and/or FW but they left it up to Pog to decide after a couple of days of rest.

 

[scribers]

If Pogacar saw Paris-Nice, he must fear Almeida and Jorgenson more than Vingegaard.

Almeida vs Jorgenson in TDF.

Be careful to not fall into the narrative of he without name. Some athletes super peak and the only competition in July will be Vingo.

 

[scribers]

Still a bit puzzled why they decided that Pog should still do all three ardennes races after it was decided he should ride P-R. Surely they knew P-R is a brutal race that is very hard on the body and they couldn't know how Pog would react to it since he has never done it before. Fear they might push Pog a little bit too much and that it might backfire (already did a bit today). But maybe they had the option of dropping AGR and/or FW but they left it up to Pog to decide after a couple of days of rest.

Pogi had plenty to win with today, he just lost tactically in a spectacular fashion.

 

[Rou]

The problem for Pog today was called Remco Evenepoel. Without him Pog wins comfortably with a 40 secs gap.
The thing is when one of the aliens is in a race when he attacks and gets a gap the group chasing gives up soon because they can't catch him and he can get into his rhythm to cruise into victory.
That's how MVDP won E3, Roubaix last year and so on.
If Remco didn't attack and join Skjelmose I am certain that the Dane would have given up as well.
But with Remco in the race he just doesn't give up and pulls like a freight train.

 

[scribers]

Let’s be honest here. Alaphilippe is responsible for this disaster

I called it.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogi had plenty to win with today, he just lost tactically in a spectacular fashion.

If he had waited for Eyserbosweg, he would get away with Remco and probably more chances to win with a late attack on the Cauberg

 

[Cycling111]

This is a bit off-topic but I don't think cycling works in a linear hierarchy like this. There's very real and evident reasons 'why' comparing Hinault and Indurain is pretty much outright impossible because of the decade separating them (and what we all know happened in the early 1990's). There's this whole other side to cycling that makes 1:1 comparisons between 'greats' pretty much impossible.

For Pog and UAE, my advice to anyone in their position (considering how strong he is) would be to chase and accumulate GT's > everything else. Doing two a year, definitely.

If it was my choice I'd take a guarantee win the Giro over losing Roubaix. Every time.

Precisely because they are so few years apart, Indurain can be compared to Hinault.
But that's not the point either.

You're underestimating what it means to be competitive in every race.
That makes him a better cyclist than Froome or Vingegaard.

Considering he's won the Tour. If he did this without having won any Tour, it could be argued, but having won three Tours and one Giro, everything he demonstrates in other classics puts him above other riders who've won the same GTs, because it shows he has greater competitive ability than they do.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The problem for Pog today was called Remco Evenepoel. Without him Pog wins comfortably with a 40 secs gap.
The thing is when one of the aliens is in a race when he attacks and gets a gap the group chasing gives up soon because they can't catch him and he can get into his rhythm to cruise into victory.
That's how MVDP won E3, Roubaix last year and so on.
If Remco didn't attack and join Skjelmose I am certain that the Dane would have given up as well.
But with Remco in the race he just doesn't give up and pulls like a freight train.

Without Skjelmose, Remco would not catch Pogacar.

 

[jmdirt]

The fact his fans are now starting to question his race schedule suggests chasing all these one day races so aggressively this season might not be the smartest thing.

WTH?!
-His fans aren't questioning the schedule.
-Even if they were, racers should NEVER base their schedule around fan opinion.
IMO, this was a great schedule!

TP got second in the sprint and this thread reads like he was 2 hours back.

 

[scribers]

That's the race

 

[Rou]

Without Skjelmose, Remco would not catch Pogacar.

I disagree. Remco was doing the heavy labour and was catching Pog on the climbs. Maybe without dragging Skjelmose he could have caught him sooner.

 

[Rackham]

Precisely because they are so few years apart, Indurain can be compared to Hinault.
But that's not the point either.

You're underestimating what it means to be competitive in every race.
That makes him a better cyclist than Froome or Vingegaard.

Considering he's won the Tour. If he did this without having won any Tour, it could be argued, but having won three Tours and one Giro, everything he demonstrates in other classics puts him above other riders who've won the same GTs, because it shows he has greater competitive ability than they do.

It's about palmarès, always will be. As a cyclist you're only as good as your last race (this applies to all sportsmen) and some day Pog will no longer be the best. Then what? Well people look back and if there's any hint of "he could have won the record number of GT's but didn't" then yeah, it'll be seen as a disappointment.

First things first he needs to win the TdF a few more times. More than 5 in total, for sure.

WTH?!
-His fans aren't questioning the schedule.
-Even if they were, racers should NEVER base their schedule around fan opinion.
IMO, this was a great schedule!

TP got second in the sprint and this thread reads like he was 2 hours back.

I clicked on this thread and I saw a barrage of posts doing exactly that, i.e. fans questioning his schedule. I'm just reading what I'm reading.