Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

This is the first time vingegaard has a bad day in the tour apart from last years disrupted preparation. Do u think what happened yesterday is an incident or has a clear reason for him following all out on a classics route day in day out against probably the best classics rider of all time? And for remco he doesn't even try to follow pog he did his own race. Imo when u do above the limit efforts the day before a TT & the next day its an all out threshold effort thats when you will pay for what u did

It was a bad day, nothing more. I think he completely blew riding against a strong wind. I don't believe he was more tired than Remco, Lipowitz, Vauquelin and all did way better TTs.
Remco went completely over his limit too and for that reason he lost 3 seconds on the road, Vingegaard still had power to finish third so he wasn't more cooked than Remco.

 

[Rackham]

It was a bad day, nothing more. I think he completely blew riding against a strong wind. I don't believe he was more tired than Remco, Lipowitz, Vauquelin and all did way better TTs.
Remco went completely over his limit too and for that reason he lost 3 seconds on the road, Vingegaard still had power to finish third so he wasn't more cooked than Remco.

He didn't blow though, he was losing time at a constant rate. He didn't start well or end well, it was just samey from beginning to end.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He didn't blow though, he was losing time at a constant rate. He didn't start well or end well, it was just samey from beginning to end.

Yup, he was losing time very regularly. 8 seconds after 4 km, 17 seconds after 8 km, 30 seconds after 16 km. It was an even performance, no dips. He simply didn't have more power to push.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He didn't blow though, he was losing time at a constant rate. He didn't start well or end well, it was just samey from beginning to end.

Don't forget the wind was from north (headwind in the first part) and he got 8th in the first time split ahead of Roglic, Almeida, Lipowitz, Matteo. He was ahead by a decent margin (except Lipowitz) and he got beaten by all these riders.

 

[veganrob]

It was a bad day, nothing more. I think he completely blew riding against a strong wind. I don't believe he was more tired than Remco, Lipowitz, Vauquelin and all did way better TTs.
Remco went completely over his limit too and for that reason he lost 3 seconds on the road, Vingegaard still had power to finish third so he wasn't more cooked than Remco.

Just a bad day? Or was it a harbinger of things to come. We may learn more on stage 6. But maybe the yellow jersey will let the break go. We'll see. it should be a good stage.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Just a bad day? Or was it a harbinger of things to come. We may learn more on stage 6. But maybe the yellow jersey will let the break go. We'll see. it should be a good stage.

Even if Pogacar is clearly better than Vingegaard in the mountains, I will say this was just a bad day. He was destroyed in the mountains 4 weeks ago, I'm not expecting him to be better than Pogacar at all in the Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

How important was yesterday's stage for the GC?
1) If the difference between Pogacar and Vingegaard in the mountains is significant then yesterday's gap won't matter (however, maybe it indicates which guy will have an advantage)
2) If they are close in the mountains then the TT gap gives Pogacar an important tactical advantage. Holding Vingo's wheel is a simple tactic and saves some energy due to drafting (important if they are evenly matched). If Pogi feels like it he can also attack Vingo after many kilometers of sticking to his wheel.

I think it matters a lot. Not necessarily because 1 minute is a lot, but there's a huge difference between leading the race with 1 minute than the other way around. Jonas is better to defend himself against Pog, dropping Pog is a whole other thing. In theory Pog can just sit in the wheels all day while using his explosiveness to answer his attacks and take seconds here and there.

 

[scribers]

If Vingo had only a bad day, then all the more reason for himself and visma to make the race really hard today and get that time and mentality back.

 

[Peyroteo94]

How important was yesterday's stage for the GC?
1) If the difference between Pogacar and Vingegaard in the mountains is significant then yesterday's gap won't matter (however, maybe it indicates which guy will have an advantage)
2) If they are close in the mountains then the TT gap gives Pogacar an important tactical advantage. Holding Vingo's wheel is a simple tactic and saves some energy due to drafting (important if they are evenly matched). If Pogi feels like it he can also attack Vingo after many kilometers of sticking to his wheel.

Visma's strategy was gaining time in the TT and then defend in the mountains IMHO. Now they really need to drop Pogacar or pray for a crash.

 

[dobrien]

I get your point but being safer without misfortunes and being attentive to any Visma's move is what UAE should do. The TT will live in Vingegaard's head during this stage but Pogacar can't burn his team to gain 4-10 seconds.

Very good point; I think I just had a vision in my head of a boxer standing over his opponent ready to deliver a big punch and then backing away to let the guy back up and take a breath. I've been watching cycling since 1984, probably should know better...

My thought was simply, you hit someone when their back is against the wall, you don't let them take a breath; I think other posters like @Moose McKnuckles who counsel not giving up on Jonas are correct. The guy is a two-time TDF winner, the only rider with a realistic chance of putting Pogi in trouble, with the only team in the race strong enough to challenge UAE. But yes, too long a day and too hard to control for a potential gain that possibly/probably wouldn't be worth the effort. Perhaps I got a bit ahead of myself; wouldn't be the first time!

(and unfortunately probably won't be the last... )

 

[BubbaChuck]

''UAE Team Emirates confirms Tadej Pogačar is set to race in the Vuelta a España unless unforeseen events arise. The team's focus is on supporting their leader for a potential triple crown, following the Tour de France.''BOMBA.

UAE Team Emirates XRG, salvo imprevisti Tadej Pogačar sarà alla Vuelta a España: "Vediamo come va il Tour, ma è in calendario"

A meno di clamorose sorprese, Tadej Pogačar correrà la Vuelta a España

cyclingpro.net

 

[Peyroteo94]

''UAE Team Emirates confirms Tadej Pogačar is set to race in the Vuelta a España unless unforeseen events arise. The team's focus is on supporting their leader for a potential triple crown, following the Tour de France.''BOMBA.

UAE Team Emirates XRG, salvo imprevisti Tadej Pogačar sarà alla Vuelta a España: "Vediamo come va il Tour, ma è in calendario"

A meno di clamorose sorprese, Tadej Pogačar correrà la Vuelta a España

cyclingpro.net

Yes!!!! I hope for no crashes! My dream scenario will come true! Red jersey in the Angliru!

 

[Cycling111]

Several media outlets are saying this.

It makes sense that the second stage he saved energy and that he said the break would arrive today it depends on UAE.

I would´ve liked to see him attempt the Rwanda time trial, but I understand that winning the three GT races as soon as possible is a priority, and not letting too many years pass due to possible accidents. He's in his prime, and the Tour-Vuelta is very physically demanding, so it's better now than later.

'It's On His Program': UAE Teases Vuelta a España Start for Tadej Pogačar

Barring disaster at the Tour de France, UAE boss Mauro Gianetti suggested that Pogačar will return to the Spanish grand tour this year.

velo.outsideonline.com

 

[dobrien]

Yes!!!! I hope for no crashes! My dream scenario will come true! Red jersey in the Angliru!

I like Pogi but don't necessarily think his dominance is good for the racing...that said, seeing the new Merckx smashing iconic climbs like Angliru is/will be pretty awesome. My wish though? Do it once, then leave it to the mere mortals so we can enjoy some GC battles.. ;-)

 

[Rou]

Tour-Vuelta-World's has never been achieved, correct? Can anyone confirm?

 

[scribers]

I believe that is correct but cannot confirm

 

[tp4493]

Will he use the v5rs today?

 

[Red Rick]

Yup, he was losing time very regularly. 8 seconds after 4 km, 17 seconds after 8 km, 30 seconds after 16 km. It was an even performance, no dips. He simply didn't have more power to push.

18, 11, 18 and 16s in every split, with the caveat that the T2 split was Pogacar's slowest.

I don't know how many technical corners there were in each section, but I also think some of the time difference was down to Pogacar cornering like a maniac.

 

[dobrien]

I believe that is correct but cannot confirm

I just did a quick chat GPT query and got the following; seems right to me, only quibble I'd have would be perhaps adding an aside regarding Anquetil's Vuelta occuring when it was still held in spring (May 1-15, so it wasn't even a full 3 week GT) but that doesn't change the actual output being correct as far as I can tell:

----------------------
No professional cyclist has ever won the Tour de France, Vuelta a España, and the World Championship road race all in one single season.
Here’s why:

• The so-called “Triple Crown” in cycling traditionally refers to winning the Giro d’Italia, Tour de France, and World Championship in one year. Only Eddy Merckx (1974) and Stephen Roche (1987) have ever accomplished that feat en.wikipedia.org+15sy.owiki.org+15en.wikipedia.org+15amp.theguardian.com.
• In 2024, Tadej Pogačar won the Giro, Tour, and the World Championships—but he skipped the Vuelta wsj.com+1nbcsports.com+1.
• Winning the two Grand Tours that take place later in the season—Tour de France and Vuelta a España—has been done in the same season: by Chris Froome (2017), Bernard Hinault (1978), Jacques Anquetil (1963), and Alberto Contador (2008). But none of them paired that with a World Championship victory in the same year flobikes.com+6the-independent.com+6sy.owiki.org+6.

So far, no cyclist has pulled off the exact combination of Tour + Vuelta + Worlds in a single calendar year. It remains one of cycling’s most elusive feats.

-------------------------------------------

 

[Peyroteo94]

Tour-Vuelta-World's has never been achieved, correct? Can anyone confirm?

Correct. Eddy won the Vuelta-Giro one time. He only won one Vuelta.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I just did a quick chat GPT query and got the following; seems right to me, only quibble I'd have would be perhaps adding an aside regarding Anquetil's Vuelta occuring when it was still held in spring (May 1-15, so it wasn't even a full 3 week GT) but that doesn't change the actual output being correct as far as I can tell:

----------------------
No professional cyclist has ever won the Tour de France, Vuelta a España, and the World Championship road race all in one single season.
Here’s why:

• The so-called “Triple Crown” in cycling traditionally refers to winning the Giro d’Italia, Tour de France, and World Championship in one year. Only Eddy Merckx (1974) and Stephen Roche (1987) have ever accomplished that feat en.wikipedia.org+15sy.owiki.org+15en.wikipedia.org+15amp.theguardian.com.
• In 2024, Tadej Pogačar won the Giro, Tour, and the World Championships—but he skipped the Vuelta wsj.com+1nbcsports.com+1.
• Winning the two Grand Tours that take place later in the season—Tour de France and Vuelta a España—has been done in the same season: by Chris Froome (2017), Bernard Hinault (1978), Jacques Anquetil (1963), and Alberto Contador (2008). But none of them paired that with a World Championship victory in the same year flobikes.com+6the-independent.com+6sy.owiki.org+6.

So far, no cyclist has pulled off the exact combination of Tour + Vuelta + Worlds in a single calendar year. It remains one of cycling’s most elusive feats.

-------------------------------------------

Contador? Ouch, bad mistake

 

[Cycling111]

Correct. Eddy won the Vuelta-Giro one time. He only won one Vuelta.

At that time the calendar was different.

Contador? Ouch, bad mistake

By the way, Contador said yesterday that Vingegaard would win the time trial.

I'm surprised at how overrated Vingegaard was for such a flat time trial. And Pogacar, in turn, was underrated.

 

[Peyroteo94]

At that time the calendar was different.


By the way, Contador said yesterday that Vingegaard would win the time trial.

I'm surprised at how overrated Vingegaard was for such a flat time trial. And Pogacar, in turn, was underrated.

This is why I said Vuelta-Giro

 

[Peyroteo94]

Very good point; I think I just had a vision in my head of a boxer standing over his opponent ready to deliver a big punch and then backing away to let the guy back up and take a breath. I've been watching cycling since 1984, probably should know better...

My thought was simply, you hit someone when their back is against the wall, you don't let them take a breath; I think other posters like @Moose McKnuckles who counsel not giving up on Jonas are correct. The guy is a two-time TDF winner, the only rider with a realistic chance of putting Pogi in trouble, with the only team in the race strong enough to challenge UAE. But yes, too long a day and too hard to control for a potential gain that possibly/probably wouldn't be worth the effort. Perhaps I got a bit ahead of myself; wouldn't be the first time!

(and unfortunately probably won't be the last... )

And you can be right eheheh. We never know, who the hell (except @Rou ) thought Pogacar would gain a lot of time on Jonas?

 

[pihi42]

Pogi is no longer competing with peers. Hes competing against Merckx. Against possible.
He's like a pioneer himalayan mountaineer, exploring the limits of human experience. You can see it in his interviews, the change. In 2024, mid-Giro, he was already racing the Tour. On Isola2k slopes, he was already preparing the 100k WC attack.
He's not targetting the yellow jersey itself, he's targetting the big picture, the history books.
Looking past the trees, he's become the forest.