Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Shortcut said:
He won all big RR (Vuelta,LBL 2X, OGRR) except WC when Pogacar was out. It is reasonable to think that Pogacar wouls win at least 3 of those races if not all 4) so don't start with "Pogacar has had some good fortune...". Tell me one RR where Remco would be favourite over Pogacar, just one?
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Yup. It's very possible Remco wouldn't win half of his big wins if he was racing against Pogacar. But you just beat who is there in the race. It was Pogacar's decision to not race ORR, LBL or the Vuelta.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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Eddy Evenepoel

Eddy Evenepoel

Aug 31, 2019
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Peyroteo94 said:
We talk a lot about Pogacar's zone 2 but here Sven says Pogacar's zone 3 is what makes him special.
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Im not sure he's talking about the standard zone 3 in the way people talk about Pogacars zone 2 training, but about the third system of energy generation in the body.

Vanthourenhout spoke of three separate engines of the body to HLN, which generate energy for exercise, from the first, which uses fat and oxygen – basic endurance, to a second, more intense level where sugars and oxygen are used up. But he focused on the third, most intense of the three, as to where Evenepoel can improve in comparison to the World Champion – with Pogačar thriving during the most anaerobic efforts where his rivals falter as lactic acid accumulates.

"It's in that third zone that Pogačar is so good," said Vanthourenhout, having witnessed the new gradual seated attack that Pogačar has utilised several times since changing coach in 2023. "Remco's basic fitness isn't inferior, but Tadej has an advantage in that regard. And that's what we're going to try to work on.
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Above Zone 2 there are many more zones based on which model you use (traditionally between 5 and 8 zones in total), look for example this example from BikeRadar:
https://imgur.com/a/d5RkUIz

When talking about anaerobic efforts I think it's definitively talk about the higher end of Treshold zone and above Vanthourenhout is speeking about in this specific case. That also rhymes with Remco saying he need to improve his 3-5 minute effort to be able to stay with Pogacar during these longer seated attacks without killing himself.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Eddy Evenepoel said:
Im not sure he's talking about the standard zone 3 in the way people talk about Pogacars zone 2 training, but about the third system of energy generation in the body.


Above Zone 2 there are many more zones based on which model you use (traditionally between 5 and 8 zones in total), look for example this example from BikeRadar:
https://imgur.com/a/d5RkUIz

When talking about anaerobic efforts I think it's definitively talk about the higher end of Treshold zone and above Vanthourenhout is speeking about in this specific case. That also rhymes with Remco saying he need to improve his 3-5 minute effort to be able to stay with Pogacar during these longer seated attacks without killing himself.
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Remco needs to improve his FTP. He can follow Pogacar for 3' but he will explode later since he needs to go way harder than Pogacar. This is not just in long efforts, I'm pretty sure Remco can't follow Pogacar on 2 km hills of Pogacar goes at his max.
 
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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

Jul 7, 2013
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@Eddy Evenepoel

Yes, the coach definitely meant something else than the standard zone3 (which is mix of fat and sugars burn and moderate intensity with no strong lactate accumulation (almost exclusively aerobic)).

3-5 minutes effort is the upper part of zone5. Part of the energy is anaerobic (that's why lactates accumulate quickly) and after 1 minute or so the body produces near VO2max aerobic response (nasty effort!). That's an important part: if Pogacar has higher VO2max he can maintain higher intensity and/or clear lactates faster after a strong acceleration. IMO VO2max is the key here but more generally (for longer climbs) it's anaerobic threshold (so zone4 power).

The correlation between VO2max and threshold power is very high for those well-trained athletes (but some of them could respond better to training stimulation (or other stuff we can't talk about here) and have better threshold than others at the same VO2max level). I think many of forum members believe that Pogacar has crazy VO2max but his lower zones "follow" it very nicely (are super high), due to training at crazy high VO2max for most of the year (for whatever reasons). All his zones from 2 to 5 are absurdly high.
 
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YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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peterfin said:
MSR. The race and climbs are not hard enough so Remco could benefit from his TT skills in the final and Pogacar has not the benefit of his exceptional recovery vs the field. We have seen that MSR is difficult for Pogacar. I give Remco more chances to win.
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But then Remco's presence increase Pogacar's chances to win IMO.
That said, I do agree that Evenepoel has (a slightly) bigger chance to win MSR.
 
Fos

Fos

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Peyroteo94 said:
Remco needs to improve his FTP. He can follow Pogacar for 3' but he will explode later since he needs to go way harder than Pogacar. This is not just in long efforts, I'm pretty sure Remco can't follow Pogacar on 2 km hills of Pogacar goes at his max.
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He can not follow any meter if Pogi has a proper train.
 
Lorzenz08

Lorzenz08

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Peyroteo94 said:
I'm curious to see if this season will be considered better than last year.
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True I think we are in unchartered territory so difficult to say, the Triple Crown is generally considered the highest feat but maybe because no one has yet achieved the Best Classic season + TdF.
So I guess this will be the debate. Triple Crown + 2 monuments versus All Monuments podium + TdF.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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Lorzenz08 said:
True I think we are in unchartered territory so difficult to say, the Triple Crown is generally considered the highest feat but maybe because no one has yet achieved the Best Classic season + TdF.
So I guess this will be the debate. Triple Crown + 2 monuments versus All Monuments podium + TdF.
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I still think last year is better. Triple Crown is the second highest feat in cycling.
 
O

Oldman

Jun 19, 2009
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Shortcut said:
He won all big RR (Vuelta,LBL 2X, OGRR) except WC when Pogacar was out. It is reasonable to think that Pogacar wouls win at least 3 of those races if not all 4) so don't start with "Pogacar has had some good fortune...". Tell me one RR where Remco would be favourite over Pogacar, just one?
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You don't believe Pogacar hasn't had good fortune on parcours? By the way; I didn't suggest that he didn't recognize the opportunities and train to be dominant on those courses. At this point in time no one would suggest Remco could beat him on a hilly course except the very dedicated Remco fans. So I'll definitely "start with" because Remco is good.
 
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Cycling111 said:
Podium at the 5 Monuments in modern cycling seem more difficult to me.

I think what it means to have participated in Roubaix as a Tour de France winner is undervalued. There's a reason it didn't happen more than 30 years ago.
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And being Giro+Tour+ WC winner? No one can even come close to win Giro-Tour in the modern era after Pantani. Let alone Giro+Tour+WC
 
C

Cycling111

Apr 13, 2025
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Peyroteo94 said:
And being Giro+Tour+ WC winner? No one can even come close to win Giro-Tour in the modern era after Pantani. Let alone Giro+Tour+WC
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But they've tried. No one has tried the 5 Monuments while winning the Tour for over 30 years.
By the way, no one has managed to get on the podium in all 5 in the same year, not even Merckx was on the podium in all 5 in the same year. And that is more difficult in modern cycling, which is so specialized.

Second place in Roubaix on his debut being Tour winner isn't valued; not even Merckx and Hinault achieved that result the first time at Roubaix.

Giro-Tour-World Championships would be very difficult for Vingegaard, but Tour and a podium in all the Monuments would be totally impossible for him.
The same goes for the Classics riders; neither VDP nor Pedersen can get on the podium of Lombardia like Gilbert did. Add to that winning the Tour.

For me, this year's achievement is more difficult than last year's. And completing Roubaix for Pogacar is more difficult than are appreciating.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Cycling111 said:
But they've tried. No one has tried the 5 Monuments while winning the Tour for over 30 years.
By the way, no one has managed to get on the podium in all 5 in the same year, not even Merckx was on the podium in all 5 in the same year. And that is more difficult in modern cycling, which is so specialized.

Second place in Roubaix on his debut being Tour winner isn't valued; not even Merckx and Hinault achieved that result the first time at Roubaix.

Giro-Tour-World Championships would be very difficult for Vingegaard, but Tour and a podium in all the Monuments would be totally impossible for him.
The same goes for the Classics riders; neither VDP nor Pedersen can get on the podium of Lombardia like Gilbert did. Add to that winning the Tour.

For me, this year's achievement is more difficult than last year's. And completing Roubaix for Pogacar is more difficult than are appreciating.
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Maybe you are right. Triple crown was done before. Podium in all monuments never was done and if we add a TdF... it's impressive!
 
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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

Jul 7, 2013
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Peyroteo94 said:
No way that VAM gives 7,4 w/kg. Probably around 7 w/kg.
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Definitely 7.4 w/kg looks like a number from ***. I dunno what could've contributed to such a high number at 1833 m/h of VAM. Ascent irregularity? Strong headwind? Average grade of 7% isn't that shallow to produce such numbers.
 
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Krzysztof_O said:
Definitely 7.4 w/kg looks like a number from ***. I dunno what could've contributed to such a high number at 1833 m/h of VAM. Ascent irregularity? Strong headwind? Average grade of 7% isn't that shallow to produce such numbers.
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Without a doubt. 7.2% at 7.4 w/kg is more than 2000 of VAM
 
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