Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[rafa92]

He was never gonna be in position for cipressa anyway. I said the team is destined to fail when the team roster came out. I know matxin is the one who makes the schedule of each rider but imo pog should be strong in having a say in the schedules

I agree with you, pogacar should pretend to decide the team for msr already in december and they should plan the riders' first part of the season based on that. He has given so much to this team

 

[YavorD]

there are priorities, these riders can do what they want in the rest of the season, you are asking them to sacrifice useless races in january/february, pogacar is trying to make history and this is the only race of the year in which he absolutely needs a superteam. Pogacar has given so much more to the team compared to what he's getting

Yes.
And when they crash before the Tour, you'll complain again. So according to you they can only do something for themselves in August.
It doesn't work this way.

 

[rafa92]

Yes.
And when they crash before the Tour, you'll complain again. So according to you they can only do something for themselves in August.
It doesn't work this way.

the tour is different for 2 reasons: first you don't need a perfect team, pogacar can compete for the win even if 2/3 important riders are out. Second, the race is in july so you can't plan so far ahead, I agree with you, you can't ask these riders to race few days until july. Here we are talking about march, historically the cycling season had just started, now they have added some useless races before, but if you really care about making history it's a no brainer you should sacrifice these races. By sacrificing I mean simply sending other riders instead of those who are important for MSR. By the way, with this strategy you would increase the chances for these riders to race when the actual cycling season starts (with strade bianche) instead of loosing the entire classics season

 

[YavorD]

the tour is different for 2 reasons: first you don't need a perfect team, pogacar can compete for the win even if 2/3 important riders are out. Second, the race is in july so you can't plan so far ahead, I agree with you, you can't ask these riders to race few days until july. Here we are talking about march, historically the cycling season had just started, now they have added some useless races before, but if you really care about making history it's a no brainer you should sacrifice these races

Again, you can't tell Tim Wellens and Jhonatan Narvaez "sorry guys, you're not doing Down Under and Onloop because we want to put you in a bubble so you don't crash*.
They simply won't sign for you.

Every team suffers from crashes. It happens, part of the sport.

 

[yaf2]

Idt the team should hold its riders back from competing in earlier races just because there is a monument in march, but there is a common sense here that based on data from this year only, christin has crashed 3 times already & they put him in a hectic monument hoping a miracle will happen of him entering cipressa in the top 50 positions. We could see it coming & they never did? It was a matter of time that Jan christin would be irrelevant in today’s race. On the other hand the team has cosnefory & venmarke who are proven classics riders & they didn’t bring at least one of them. Look at ineos,lidle,visma,alpecin… they brought all of their best classics riders for this race. It’s unbelievable

 

[rafa92]

Again, you can't tell Tim Wellens and Jhonatan Narvaez "sorry guys, you're not doing Down Under and Onloop because we want to put you in a bubble so you don't crash*.
They simply won't sign for you.

Every team suffers from crashes. It happens, part of the sport.

yes you can, do you really think narvaez would prefer riding down under (which he has already won) or increase his chances to race without pogacar in Gand, E3, Amstel. Same thing for wellens. We are talking about priorities, making history vs the absolute nothing. You are not asking these riders to sacrifice nothing, just shift their focus to races that start later, their total race days would not change. There are so many great races they can do after msr, all the classics, basque, catalunya (thinking about mcnulty)..

 

[rafa92]

Idt the team should hold its riders back from competing in earlier races just because there is a monument in march, but there is a common sense here that based on data from this year only, christin has crashed 3 times already & they put him in a hectic monument hoping a miracle will happen of him entering cipressa in the top 50 positions. We could see it coming & they never did? It was a matter of time that Jan christin would be irrelevant in today’s race. On the other hand the team has cosnefory & venmarke who are proven classics riders & they didn’t bring at least one of them. Look at ineos,lidle,visma,alpecin… they brought all of their best classics riders for this race. It’s unbelievable

"Idt the team should hold its riders back from competing in earlier races just because there is a monument in march" then they deserve to loose msr every single year, that's very simple. Btw you are not asking anyone to hold back, just to shift their focus, if they race less in january/february they have a bigger chance to race more when the big races start in march, in the end they can do the same race days, just in different parts of the season and in much nicer races. It's called planning, not holding back.
"On the other hand the team has cosnefory & venmarke who are proven classics riders & they didn’t bring at least one of them". I agree with you, that's simply a mistake, these 2 should have been here

 

[YavorD]

yes you can, do you really think narvaez would prefer riding down under (which he has already won) or increases his chances to race without pogacar Gand, E3, Amstel. Same thing for wellens. We are talking about priorities, making history vs the absolute nothing

Yes. I think its important for Narvzez to ride Down Under . It's a WT stage race and he has nationals only a couple of weeks later.
I also think that for Wellens the opening weekend IS rather important.
If you want to have star riders in support, you have to make sacrifices.

 

[yaf2]

"Idt the team should hold its riders back from competing in earlier races just because there is a monument in march" then they deserve to loose msr every single year, that's very simple. Btw you are not asking anyone to hold back, just to shift their focus, if they race less in january/february they have a bigger chance to race more when the big races start in march, in the end they can do the same race days, just in different parts of the season.
"On the other hand the team has cosnefory & venmarke who are proven classics riders & they didn’t bring at least one of them". I agree with you, that's simply a mistake, these 2 should have been here

Team uae is obsessed with having the most wins every year so i wouldn’t blame them if they’re a small race merchants but they should do much better in their team selections. Even with wellens & narvaez out they have enough firepower in their arsenal but they never used them

 

[rafa92]

Yes. I think its important for Narvzez to ride Down Under . It's a WT stage race and he has nationals only a couple of weeks later.
I also think that for Welles the opening weekend IS rather important.
If you want to have star riders in support, you have to make sacrifices.

"Yes. I think its important for Narvzez to ride Down Under", I did not ask you if that's important for him, but if he would prefer having a chance in Gand, E3, Amstel or Basque country. Those are all much bigger races where pogacar is not present and narvaez could try to get big results. His race days would remain the same, simply in different parts of the season. You are asking a rider to do a different plan, not to sacrifice anything!! It's a very simple concept, it's called planning

 

[rafa92]

Team uae is obsessed with having the most wins every year so i wouldn’t blame them if they’re a small race merchants

That's the real problem

Even with wellens & narvaez out they have enough firepower in their arsenal but they never used them

I'm not sure they still have enough firepower but yes they could still do a better job with the selection you're right

 

[yaco]

there are priorities, these riders can do what they want in the rest of the season, you are asking them to sacrifice useless races in january/february, pogacar is trying to make history and this is the only race of the year in which he absolutely needs a superteam. Pogacar has given so much more to the team compared to what he's getting

Most of the injured were riding in WT races. Do you expect the team to skip WT races and be fined. You are out of touch with reality.

 

[rafa92]

Most of the injured were riding in WT races. Do you expect the team to skip WT races and be fined. You are out of touch with reality.

you clearly do not understand the point and clearly you are the one out of touch of reality, do you really think I said that UAE should skip these races? UAE has the deepest team in the world, they can send many strong riders to these races, they just have to decide which riders are crucial for MSR given their characteristics and plan their schedule for the first part of the season accordingly. Just an example (even if you should not need it if you were able to reason): in tour down under UAE won the race with vine, they do not need narvaez there. Just one example clearly

 

[yaco]

you clearly do not understand the point and clearly you are the one out of touch of reality, do you really think I said that UAE should skip these races? UAE has the deepest team in the world, they can send many strong riders to these races, they just have to decide which riders are crucial for MSR given their characteristics and plan their schedule for the first part of the season accordingly. Just an example (even if you should not need it if you were able to reason): in tour down under UAE won the race with vine, they do not need narvaez there. Just one example clearly

Nah. Riders have to race and crashes can occur in any race and unfortunately too often in training. You can't cotton wool Pogacar's selected riders which Pogicar would not want to do. And if you do then you are affecting the schedules of other riders.

 

[rafa92]

Nah. Riders have to race and crashes can occur in any race and unfortunately too often in training. You can't cotton wool Pogacar's selected riders which Pogicar would not want to do.

I see you realised your previous comment made no sense. You are not talking about skipping races and getting fined anymore!
The selected riders would simply switch their focus to other races, not sacrificing anything, just focusing on other races for their personal goals, racing more in other parts of the season. If you people can't understand this simple concept.... I'll stop here

 

[YavorD]

I see you realised your previous comment made no sense. You are not talking about skipping races and getting fined anymore!
The selected riders would simply switch their focus to other races, not sacrificing anything, just focusing on other races for their personal goals, racing more in other parts of the season. If you people can't understand this simple concept.... I'll stop here

Again, what races?
"Jonny don't go to your nationals, go to Deutschland tour instead".
"Tim, don't do the opening weekend.
Go to Renewi and Tour of Luxembourg".

The races Narvaez and Wellens crashed in are important for them.
If you don't let them ride even these races they simply won't sign for you, as I said numerous times .

 

[rafa92]

Again, what races?
"Jonny don't go to your nationals, go to Deutschland tour instead".
"Tim, don't do the opening weekend.
Go to Renewi and Tour of Luxembourg".

The races Narvaez and Wellens crashed in are important for them.
If you don't let them ride even these races they simply won't sign for you, as I said numerous times .

I don't know if you realise but the cycling season is huge, do you really need the list? E3, Gand, Amstel, Catalunya, Fleche, Brabantse, Basque Country, Dauphine, Romandie, San Sebastian, Canadian classics.... the list goes on, it's basically infinite if you count also minor races (Renewi, Pologne are just as important as TDU, they are all minor WT races). I don't know if you realise that if a rider races more in january/february he will necessarily race less in other months of the season

 

[yaco]

I see you realised your previous comment made no sense. You are not talking about skipping races and getting fined anymore!
The selected riders would simply switch their focus to other races, not sacrificing anything, just focusing on other races for their personal goals, racing more in other parts of the season. If you people can't understand this simple concept.... I'll stop here

So you place an unfair burden on some riders to participate in more races so you can cottonwool selected riders for Pogacar. I doubt you can run a team like this.

 

[YavorD]

I don't know if you realise but the cycling season is huge, do you really need the list? E3, Gand, Amstel, Catalunya, Fleche, Brabantse, Basque Country, Dauphine, Romandie, San Sebastian, Canadian classics.... the list goes on, it's basically infinite if you count also minor races (Renewi, Pologne are just as important as TDU, they are all minor WT races). I don't know if you realise that if a rider races more in january/february he will necessarily race less in other months of the season

And do you realise that it doesn't revolve around what YOU consider important, but what said riders consider important?
Narvaez' nationals are in February. Being in shape for them might be important for him. If that's true, going to Down Under fighting for the win is also important for him.
Absolutely the same goes for Wellens and the opening weekend. If he likes them and they are important for him.
You can't put the riders in a bubble. Sadly, crashes happen. Part of the game.

 

[rafa92]

So you place an unfair burden on some riders to participate in more races so you can cottonwool selected riders for Pogacar. I doubt you can run a team like this.

but which unfair burden?!!!!!!!!! swap TDU or another minor race in january/february for one of the thousands of races that are just as important or more important that take place in the remaining 8-9 months of the season. If you race more in january/february you will racce less in the rest of the season!!!!!

 

[rafa92]

And do you realise that it doesn't revolve around what YOU consider important, but what said riders consider important?
Narvaez' nationals are in February. Being in shape for them might be important for him. If that's true, going to Down Under fighting for the win is also important for him.
Absolutely the same goes for Wellens and the opening weekend. If he likes them and they are important for him.
You can't put the riders in a bubble. Sadly, crashes happen. Part of the game.

you are hopeless, you don't understand the point, it's not worth going further

 

[YavorD]

you are hopeless, you don't understand the point, it's not worth going further

No, I understand your point perfectly well.
It's just ridiculous and you'll destroy your team if you try to apply it.

 

[rafa92]

talking about the actual race, in the last years I don't remember the breakaway having such a big gap with less than 100 km to go, they might stay in front until the bottom of the descent of cipressa

 

[The bald fraud]

Let's just say that the leadout to Cipressa was far from ideal?

 

[KZD]

Finally! HE DID IT!

GOAT!