Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Coppi-Bartali]

FW does not qualify for the most important races (those are monuments, WCs, GTs, olympics plus in the case of pog SB because he really likes it). Pogacar doesn't go to FW because he believes it's best for his preparation going forward, it has nothing to do with cosnefroy

I had that discussion in Amstel thread.

FW has a great historical prestige. Giro d'Italia isn't exactly at its peak of popularity either, but that doesn't diminish its status as the second most important Grand Tour in history. These days, Paris-Nice might have a best field, but that doesn't change the fact that the Giro remains more important.

 

[The bald fraud]

Last year, he made the switch quite fast.

Last year, he did not ride until Dauphine after LBL. But this year, he starts with stage racing (including longer climbs) next week in Romandie. So Fleche participation makes no sense for Pogačar this year.

Climbs in LBL are longer than in Amstel or Fleche. So while it is still compatible with punchier classics AGR and FW, it is also compatible with GC racing. On the other hand, FW is much more different in its characteristics to stage racing (longer climbs) than LBL. So it makes more sense to skip FW and focus on preparation for (longer) climbs.

 

[rafa92]

Last year, he did not ride until Dauphine after LBL. But this year, he starts with stage racing (including longer climbs) next week in Romandie. So Fleche participation makes no sense for Pogačar this year.

Climbs in LBL are longer than in Amstel or Fleche. So while it is still compatible with punchier classics AGR and FW, it is also compatible with GC racing. On the other hand, FW is much more different in its characteristics to stage racing (longer climbs) than LBL. So it makes more sense to skip FW and focus on preparation for (longer) climbs.

exactly this, lbl also is not very compatible with GC racing but it's a monument. The point is that as you say FW this year makes no sense, after roubaix he needs at least 2 weeks of specific training for long climbs before romandie

 

[vappa]

I had that discussion in Amstel thread.

FW has a great historical prestige. Giro d'Italia isn't exactly at its peak of popularity either, but that doesn't diminish its status as the second most important Grand Tour in history. These days, Paris-Nice might have a best field, but that doesn't change the fact that the Giro remains more important.

By that logic he should also be racing Giro because it has historical prestige

 

[rafa92]

I had that discussion in Amstel thread.

FW has a great historical prestige. Giro d'Italia isn't exactly at its peak of popularity either, but that doesn't diminish its status as the second most important Grand Tour in history. These days, Paris-Nice might have a best field, but that doesn't change the fact that the Giro remains more important.

I know FW is a prestigious race but certainly not at the level of monuments/GTs/WCs/Olympics, and it makes zero sense for pogacar, who has already won it multiple times, to race it when it's clearly bad for his preparation going forward. If you look at how his calendar has been prepared this year, with 100% focus on classics up until roubaix and romandie just after liege the only reasonable thing to do is to have at least a 2 week period to focus on long climbs/TT and TdF recons. And this is exactly what he has been doing, I mean Pogacar and his coach clearly know what he needs and what he should do better than us so I don't even know why we are still discussing this

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

By that logic he should also be racing Giro because it has historical prestige

We're discussing competing in a hill sprint one day, not 21.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

exactly this, lbl also is not very compatible with GC racing but it's a monument. The point is that as you say FW this year makes no sense, after roubaix he needs at least 2 weeks of specific training for long climbs before romandie

Actually LBL historically has been a good race for strong GC guys. For such a versatile rider like Pogacar it's not a big deviation from stage-racing.

 

[YavorD]

We're discussing competing in a hill sprint one day, not 21.

I think FW participation blocks 3-4 days of longer climbs training.
If he goes to Belgium on Tuesday, he wouldn't go back in France on Thursday only to go back in Belgium on Saturday.
If he skips FW, he can simply travel to Belgium on Saturday, thus giving himself 4 extra days.
It's not about the uphill sprint, it's the missed days of training to go and sprint on Huy.

 

[rafa92]

Actually LBL historically has been a good race for strong GC guys. For such a versatile rider like Pogacar it's not a big deviation from stage-racing.

yes okay, I said not very compatible, I'm not saying it's completely incompatible. When you look at the profile it's certainly different than what you would find in a mountain stage in week 3 at the TDF.
Ofc he has to race LBL, he has his 2 weeks after PR for recovering and staring preparations for the summer and then he does LBL and romandie in rapid succession

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think FW participation blocks 3-4 days of longer climbs training.
If he goes to Belgium on Tuesday, he wouldn't go back in France on Thursday only to go back in Belgium on Saturday.
If he skips FW, he can simply travel to Belgium on Saturday, thus giving himself 4 extra days.
It's not about the uphill sprint, it's the missed days of training to go and sprint on Huy.

Yes, it's likely he has started training on longer climbs recently after some post PR rest. A few additional days of high-quality training matter indeed.

 

[YavorD]

Yes, it's likely he has started training on longer climbs recently after some post PR rest. A few additional days of high-quality training matter indeed.

Yes. And with Vingegaard seemingly finding his shape, a couple of extra days may be very crucial.
In the grand scheme of things another FW win doesn't add anything, so there's no need to sacrifice 4 days just to go and race there.

 

[canina82]

Last year, he did not ride until Dauphine after LBL. But this year, he starts with stage racing (including longer climbs) next week in Romandie. So Fleche participation makes no sense for Pogačar this year.

Climbs in LBL are longer than in Amstel or Fleche. So while it is still compatible with punchier classics AGR and FW, it is also compatible with GC racing. On the other hand, FW is much more different in its characteristics to stage racing (longer climbs) than LBL. So it makes more sense to skip FW and focus on preparation for (longer) climbs.

FW is irrelevant (for his tour's preparation) for Pogacar. It will not matter if he races it or not.

 

[canina82]

ofc he can do the switch fast but he still needs some time, last year after liege he immediately went to sierra nevada on altitude camp, this year he can't do that because he has romandie, so I can see why he decided to have 2 weeks between PR and liege where he started training for the tour with some long climbs, recons and TT training

He went to altitude 5 days after LBL. This year he can delay his departure to Spain because TdS starts one week later tham Dauphiné.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

This minimal schedule makes me think that maybe he does plan to do the Vuelta.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So if by any chance no Laureus today what does that say about Laureus?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

This minimal schedule makes me think that maybe he does plan to do the Vuelta.

Vuelta is probably one of post-Tour scenarios discussed inside the team before the season.
But will he finally do it this year? I dunno.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

So if by any chance no Laureus today what does that say about Laureus?

Laureus is an elitist award for F1 and tennis.
They even took a while to give it to Messi, despite football being such a popular sport.

 

[Peyresourde]

If he does not do the Vuelta (now that he lost Roubaix and thus the chance of the 5 Monument season), this is the worst schedule in his career. He should never do a mimal schedule like that again while he is still in his prime.


Progression for superstars in different sports are often similar:
-First you start to win and the dominate in your core area of expertise (stage racing for Pogacar, Roland Garros for Nadal, Phelps in butterfly etc.) while also trying other stuff less successfully

-Then in your prime you widen your focus and are good at everything (Pogacar did this by also excelling in all the monuments, Nadal won other Grand Slams, Phelps in other strokes etc.), but you do not restrict your calendar yet! (like Pogacar this year)

- In your older age, you focus back on your main competencies and restrict you calender very carefully (not good enough anymore to win everything, full focus necessary to still win your core races and extend your career)


Next year he will probably focus more on stage races (and not do the cobble monuments) which is fine. Maybe he even wants to leave out the Tour (which he should not do until he has at least 6). But then he should at least do a calendar like this with enough race days:

TdU
Strade
Tirreno
Basque
LBL

Giro
Nationals
San Sebastian
Worlds
Vuelta

Emilia
Lombardia

 

[CyclistAbi]

Laureus is an elitist award for F1 and tennis.
They even took a while to give it to Messi, despite football being such a popular sport.

If i look at previous winners i feel that Pogi should get it tonight, based on the merit of the names involved. Previous winners are hence not only from F1 and tennis background.