Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[mollusc]

No one thinks he is a chemical golem, whose powers solely rely on doping. He is likely both a physical freak and on the best currently possible doping program.

like all big cycling champions ever

 

[mollusc]

Yes. This is way more enjoyable than whatever Skyneos did and on top of that we don't have to put up with the condescending nonsense about marginal gains and Brailsford's PR crap.
Skyneos was an insult to my intelligence, Pogi boy isn't.

totally agree

 

[Escarabajo]

Tadej Pogacar: I push good watts, that's why I'm first at the Tour de France

Slovenian remains in dominant position ahead of Mont Ventoux

www.cyclingnews.com

Much better PR than last time.

Pog implies that his ascents (of Romme and Colombiere) were not that fast. Reiterates that other GC favs have crashed hard.

"[Pogacar] suggested that the crashes of touted rivals like Primoz Roglič (Jumbo-Visma) and Geraint Thomas (Ineos Grenadiers) had inflated his early cushion."

"I'm dominating this race but if you look at the times on the climbs you can already see why it's such a gap. After the crashes the first few days, the field is just not the level it's supposed to be. I didn't suffer any crashes, so for me, it's really good."


on publishing his power data:

"To open up the files, I would love to. But then the thing is, everybody sees your files and the other teams can use that against you in the race," Pogačar said.


and what do you know - he won't target another stage win:

"I've already won a stage, so I'm pretty happy with that," he said. "Maybe sometimes you can do a mistake by going for the stage, and burn all the matches from the team. So the first goal is just to defend the yellow."

I.e. has been told to knock it down a notch or twenty.

LOL. Imagine Uran, Vingegaard and Mas looking and his files and saying: " wow, we can attack him here"

 

[Ripper]

Today, for the LOLzzz

“Doping is so ingrained in certain managers, like Gianetti, that they can’t conceive of cycling any other way.”

A piece from cyclismas about our friendly team principal and his own doping history and potentially his outlook. Not a great ambassador

 

[Ripper]

Carlos has some not so nice things to say about Maxtin as well

Carlos Sastre and the Cobo case: "Matxin is unpresentable, I do not believe anything about him"

 

[Koronin]

It seems to be the case for Pogacar and many of his young peers in the pro peloton, that their performance picks up quite a bit as they enter the pro ranks.

Over the last days, i've been entertaining the idea that maybe, some of these youngsters are getting their bio-pass values registered while on the juice... It would go a good bit of way to explain why we've seen such a rise in the level of the youngsters of today.

Does anyone know if this is even possible?

Interesting thought. Bio passports are definitely with athletes at the pro conti level. I would guess they are at the conti level as well. I am not away of them at the U-23 or lower ranks.

 

[topt]

He did attack from 80km out, actually (or thereabouts).

Re-watch the stage: Pogacar slipped into a breakaway early in the stage & pulled for a bit in the group all by himself (before they got caught). I know it got lost in the ensuing drama, but Pogacar literally attempted to breakaway from the GC group on the flat on Saturday way, way from the finish (it really was 80km or something close) & for a short while, it looked like he might succeed.

He was crazy strong. In fact the strongest I can remember since I first started watching cycling in the 1990's. It was Pantani/Ullrich/Riis/Lance all in one. He doesn't even look skeletal thin either, i.e. he has some bulk in there which really does remind me of the 1990's hematocrit defying supermen.

I think the Froome Giro and Landis are better than everything we have seen so far

 

[topt]

LOL. Imagine Uran, Vingegaard and Mas looking and his files and saying: " wow, we can attack him here"

well, Pogi did have power data for the longest of all the top riders; they stopped after 2020 Peyresourde. Based on the fact that his Peyresourde had higher W/kg than whatever he did this year the data for "cheat detectives" is out there.
here it is

Col de Peyresourde - LaFlammeRouge verified | Strava Ride Segment in Saint-Aventin, Occitanie, France

www.strava.com

one could argue that his recovery could imply doping but his raw power data, just no

 

[yaco]

Biological passports are used at the WT and PCT level - I am unsure if CT riders need a passport if they race in PCT and in selected races with WT riders.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

"Everybody still left in this race except for me is an embarrassment, man" might be good PR in that, in the light of most media, it provides a seemingly plausible explanation for the gaps we're seeing. Perhaps not so great in terms of not making enemies in the peloton, though.

Indeed.

It seems to me as if he shares some personality traits with LA. I guess most champions do to an extent - but I don't get the same vibes from other recent Tour and Giro winners. (I'm not including Froome BTW - Froome is yesterday's news - more recent winners only)

Just based on some of Pogacar's recent post-stage interviews. It's almost as if he enjoys humiliating the rest of the GC field. That simply winning isn't enough. Also the " getting even" part ...that he took it as a personal slight that other teams rode against him in the Le Creusot stage. The intimidating looks over the shoulder when he's about to drop Carapaz. Etc.

All standard fare, I guess, but still, it adds up.

Not suggesting that you have to have to these personality traits in order to consider hardcore doping, BTW. But he does fit the mold of an athlete who'll do whatever it takes.

 

[ice&fire]

Carlos has some not so nice things to say about Maxtin as well

Carlos Sastre and the Cobo case: "Matxin is unpresentable, I do not believe anything about him"

Yeah, but it's about money, not doping.

 

[bNator]

Indeed.

It seems to me as if he share some personality traits with LA. I guess most champions do to an extent - but I don't get the same vibes from other recent Tour and Giro winners. (I'm not including Froome BTW - Froome is yesterday's news - more recent winners only)

Just based on some of Pogacar's recent post-stage interviews. It's almost as if he enjoys humiliating the rest of the GC field. That simply winning isn't enough. Also the " getting even" part ...that he took it as a personal slight that other teams rode against him in the Le Creusot stage. The intimidating looks over the shoulder when he's about to drop Carapaz. Etc.

All standard fare, I guess, but still, it adds up.

Not suggesting that you have to have to these personality traits in order to consider hardcore doping, BTW. But he does fit the mold of an athlete who'll do whatever it takes.

I'm also getting that vibe from him. He is utterly ruthless. I don't know if it has been published in english speaking media, but in Slovenia he said after Saturday's stage (paraphrasing): "Yesterday, Carapaz attacked after our team have been working whole day - I think today's ride was appropriate response". In other words: This is what you get if you mess with us...

Well at least no one can say he is robotic

As for publishing his power data, It is an intel you may not want to share with your competition. If he does it, it would be fair everyone else do it as well...

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

As for publishing his power data, It is an intel you may not want to share with your competition. If he does it, it would be fair everyone else do it as well...

Agreed. I wouldn't mind if it was mandatory.

 

[Notarobot]

LOL. Imagine Uran, Vingegaard and Mas looking and his files and saying: " wow, we can attack him here"

Probably between 2 and 6 AM

 

[carolina]

I don' t understand how other teams can use his power data in their favor. If Pogacar can push more watts than the others, which is what's happening, how does knowing his watts make a difference?

If the others could keep up with him, they would. Such bull*t

 

[Mr. 64%]

Interesting thought. Bio passports are definitely with athletes at the pro conti level. I would guess they are at the conti level as well. I am not away of them at the U-23 or lower ranks.

I believe you're right, which is one of the bases for my train of thought. From rider testimony, we know that it was common practice for riders to do their first seasons pan y agua in the 90's - which indeed could explain why we didn't see many young riders delivering top results in that era - Ullrich of course being the odd one out.

 

[topt]

I don' t understand how other teams can use his power data in their favor. If Pogacar can push more watts than the others, which is what's happening, how does knowing his watts make a difference?

If the others could keep up with him, they would. Such bull*t

so why are all the others also hiding it ?

 

[carolina]

I don't know. I just don't see how showing your race data will be harmfull. I understand not sharing the training data, but race? If he did more watts then the others, there is nothing the others can do about it.

 

[Riek s]

I don't know. I just don't see how showing your race data will be harmfull. I understand not sharing the training data, but race? If he did more watts then the others, there is nothing the others can do about it.

But does it change something?
We know he pushes more Watts because he is going faster and the weight difference is small. (Hell in the TT he would have pushed 6.5-6.7W/kg (420-440W).
We would get a more accurate W/kg or power production ratio, but not sure if that will prove/disprove anything.

 

[Ripper]

I don't know. I just don't see how showing your race data will be harmfull. I understand not sharing the training data, but race? If he did more watts then the others, there is nothing the others can do about it.

What you are saying is basically true. The data should not really give away any secrets. It's not like the data published by
other, including folks like vdP, have provided intelligence so that other teams can beat them.

 

[Ripper]

Yeah, but it's about money, not doping.

Ya, perhaps not suitable for the clinic. Just seems to be a lot of unpleasantness and corruption following that team's leadership.

 

[Ripper]

Indeed.

It seems to me as if he shares some personality traits with LA. I guess most champions do to an extent - but I don't get the same vibes from other recent Tour and Giro winners. (I'm not including Froome BTW - Froome is yesterday's news - more recent winners only)

Just based on some of Pogacar's recent post-stage interviews. It's almost as if he enjoys humiliating the rest of the GC field. That simply winning isn't enough. Also the " getting even" part ...that he took it as a personal slight that other teams rode against him in the Le Creusot stage. The intimidating looks over the shoulder when he's about to drop Carapaz. Etc.

All standard fare, I guess, but still, it adds up.

Not suggesting that you have to have to these personality traits in order to consider hardcore doping, BTW. But he does fit the mold of an athlete who'll do whatever it takes.

^ This

Pretty much what I've been thinking

 

[bNator]

I don' t understand how other teams can use his power data in their favor. If Pogacar can push more watts than the others, which is what's happening, how does knowing his watts make a difference?

If the others could keep up with him, they would. Such bull*t

There’s a team in the peloton who claims to be able to extract 5 watts per rider just by using separate washing machines for each rider. I bet they could find a way to use watt info to their advantage.

On a serious note - why would it help if Pogacar published his watts? He apparently produces a lot of watts - more than others. Why would it make it any better if we knew just how many?

And lastly - any info that you provide to your competition without getting anything in return is bad for business. Not just cycling - any business…

 

[carolina]

People are trying to calculate his watts and use that has evidence of doping. If his watts are not that amazing, like Poga and his coach are trying to imply on the interviews, then showing the watts would help prove that and may convince someone.

Cycling will always be associated with doping, if riders want to shut up some of the critics, being transparent with their data would be a good first step.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Pogacar's Landis trip the other day ruined the race, for the time being. It was a good example of exceptional performances NOT creating more exciting racing (unless you are a fan of the guy).