Take that, Cowtador!

[JMBeaushrimp]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/experts-poke-holes-in-contadors-contaminated-meat-defense

The last paragraph's the best. I like Ayotte's attitude.

 

[flicker]

contadors hair test would always be negitive because he uses a special hair cleanser.

 

[pedaling squares]

Thousands of tests and they don't find clen in Spanish beef, but Contador somehow manages to eat a contaminated piece during a stage race. That's the kind of bad luck that can only happen to a pro cyclist.

Agree with the OP about Ayotte's perspective.

"If this case is lost because they're concluding the amount is too small, that would be a major problem. It's not the end of the world, but if competent arbitrators decide that, my heart would break. More dopers would go through the net."

 

[Altitude]

contadors hair test would always be negitive because he uses a special hair cleanser.

Doesn't matter. If he tested positive, WADA would need to prove that it wasn't due to contaminated conditioner.

 

[minessa]

Thousands of tests and they don't find clen in Spanish beef, but Contador somehow manages to eat a contaminated piece during a stage race. That's the kind of bad luck that can only happen to a pro cyclist.

Agree with the OP about Ayotte's perspective.

Her heart would have been broken yesterday. http://doping.zdf.de/ZDFsport/inhalt/25/0,5676,8120793,00.html?dr=1 "Dimitrij Ovtcharov may again play table tennis. An expertise of the Cologne Doping Laboratory showed: The amount of clenbuterol in his body was so small that deliberate doping is impossibel"

 

[sniper]

Her heart would have been broken yesterday. http://doping.zdf.de/ZDFsport/inhalt/25/0,5676,8120793,00.html?dr=1 "Dimitrij Ovtcharov may again play table tennis. An expertise of the Cologne Doping Laboratory showed: The amount of clenbuterol in his body was so small that deliberate doping is impossibel"

Don't know if you've followed the newscoverage of the Otcharov-case? It is stressed everywhere that his case has nothing to do with Clonetador's case. 1. Four of his teammates also tested positive on clenb. after extra tests were done on them. 2. He was in China. 3. His hairtest was negative. 4. Your hands start shaking when you use clenb., so as pingpongplayer, you really don't want to use clenb.

 

[frenchfry]

Don't know if you've followed the newscoverage of the Otcharov-case? It is stressed everywhere that his case has nothing to do with Clonetador's case. 1. Four of his teammates also tested positive on clenb. after extra tests were done on them. 2. He was in China. 3. His hairtest was negative. 4. Your hands start shaking when you use clenb., so as pingpongplayer, you really don't want to use clenb.

Multiple teammates testing positive as a reason to get off doping charges?

That's a good one.

edit: in the article the it says "other people" without specifying teammates, which isn't necessarily the same thing.

 

[Altitude]

Multiple teammates testing positive as a reason to get off doping charges?

That's a good one.

When the claim is that it came from contaminated meat, then yes, that makes sense. If Vino had also tested positive for clen, it would have made Contador's explanation much more believable. Too bad Vino was the only member of the team to not have some of that meat....

 

[minessa]

Don't know if you've followed the newscoverage of the Otcharov-case? It is stressed everywhere that his case has nothing to do with Clonetador's case. 1. Four of his teammates also tested positive on clenb. after extra tests were done on them. 2. He was in China. 3. His hairtest was negative. 4. Your hands start shaking when you use clenb., so as pingpongplayer, you really don't want to use clenb.

1. Imagine that four Contador teammates also tasted positiv, everyone would talk about organized teamdoping. 2. Italian rider Colo was in Mexico. 3. Contador does not need hairtest, his sample from the day before was negative. 4. Why is then clenbuterol banned in tabletennis?

 

[sniper]

Multiple teammates testing positive as a reason to get off doping charges?

That's a good one.

edit: in the article the it says "other people" without specifying teammates, which isn't necessarily the same thing.

Dear Frenchfry, why single out 1 point, when I provide 4? Ever heard of the sum of the data? Plus, I said: "if you've followed the newscoverage, then...". Aparently you haven't followed the coverage, cuz in other articles it is made clear that, right after Ovch. had tested positive, his teammates (no, not his uncle in Germany, but his teammates) were also tested for clenb., which is a standard backup procedure if someone tests positive for clenb.

 

[Altitude]

1. Imagine that four Contador teammates also tasted positiv, everyone would talk about organized teamdoping. 2. Italian rider Colo was in Mexico. 3. Contador does not need hairtest, his sample from the day before was negative. 4. Why is then clenbuterol banned in tabletennis?

1. No. That would be beneficial to Contadope, as they all ate the same meat.

2. Clentador's meat was from Spain-- "Only once did clenbuterol show up in 83,203 animal samples tested by EU countries in 2008 and 2009, says the European Commission's directorate for health and consumer policy. Spain tested 19,431 samples in those years; none were positive for the drug."

3. That's because he hadn't received his transfusion yet.

4. Because it is banned by the IOC

 

[sniper]

1. Imagine that four Contador teammates also tasted positiv, everyone would talk about organized teamdoping. 2. Italian rider Colo was in Mexico. 3. Contador does not need hairtest, his sample from the day before was negative. 4. Why is then clenbuterol banned in tabletennis?

Interesting point. Perhaps you'Re right. But for a reason. Although we cannot be sure, most will agree that cycling is somewhat more rotten from the inside than pingpong is. There is also a reason for that: pingpongplayers have to do parttime jobs to pay the rent (=> no money for advanced doping). The cycling industry is quite a different ballgame.
Be that as it may, I think they would have let Contador of the hook with a three month bann, if it weren't for the plasticizers. Also, his shaky (and that's the understatement of the year) story about the contaminated Spanish/Basque beef doesn't quite help his sorry *** either. He had done much wiser to just keep quiet and stay low for while, instead of defending himself with a laughable story.

4. Why is then clenbuterol banned in tabletennis?
Well, the articles about Otcharov also say that his case together with Contador's case once more make very clear how shaky the whole system is. One article said it's just a matter of chance calculation: in Otcharov's case, the chances of food contamination were high, and the chances of him taking clenb. were rather low. So if you do the math, this means that Ovcharov is probably not guilty (but only probably). Note, by the way, that the WADA are still considering appeal.

 

[sniper]

1. No. That would be beneficial to Contadope, as they all ate the same meat.

2. Clentador's meat was from Spain-- "Only once did clenbuterol show up in 83,203 animal samples tested by EU countries in 2008 and 2009, says the European Commission's directorate for health and consumer policy. Spain tested 19,431 samples in those years; none were positive for the drug."

3. That's because he hadn't received his transfusion yet.

4. Because it is banned by the IOC

..My thoughts exactly...

 

[Irish2009]

But even if the clen came from the cow, what the f**K was the cow doing with plastizer in its system??????

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Clen's banned in table tennis because it's banned in all physio-systemic oriented sports and they need to keep the 'panel' consistent in the books.

No ping-pong player needs to drop half a kilo before comp, or be able to breathe out of their ears. Different story in cycling and many other sports that WADA and the IOC keep an eye on. Imagine if they had different lists for each and every bizarre sport out there. What the hell do you test for in 'trampoline'...

 

[Benotti69]

Dear Frenchfry, why single out 1 point, when I provide 4? Ever heard of the sum of the data? Plus, I said: "if you've followed the newscoverage, then...". Aparently you haven't followed the coverage, cuz in other articles it is made clear that, right after Ovch. had tested positive, his teammates (no, not his uncle in Germany, but his teammates) were also tested for clenb., which is a standard backup procedure if someone tests positive for clenb.

Was every athlete in China giving samples to be tested? or just all the pingpong athletes?

It took how long for Contador's positive for Clen to comeback, a month?

 

[sniper]

Clen's banned in table tennis because it's banned in all physio-systemic oriented sports and they need to keep the 'panel' consistent in the books.

No ping-pong player needs to drop half a kilo before comp, or be able to breathe out of their ears. Different story in cycling and many other sports that WADA and the IOC keep an eye on. Imagine if they had different lists for each and every bizarre sport out there. What the hell do you test for in 'trampoline'...

true story

 

[sniper]

Was every athlete in China giving samples to be tested? or just all the pingpong athletes?

It took how long for Contador's positive for Clen to comeback, a month?

Contablet's testing results came in right after the Tour. They were revealed only a month or two later (I'm not quite sure about the exact time frame though).
In the case of Ovcharov: a couple of days after his positive tests results had come out, they tested his teammates, and there were still little residues of clenb. circulating in their blood. They had all gone to the same restaurant. Their hairtests were negative. Clenb.-contaminated meat is an everyday thing in China (not in Spain). Pingponger'S don't benefit from clenb. (quite on the contrary). Cyclists do. etc. etc...
I mean, just do the math, make some chance calculations. Not much more you can do besides appealing to common sense.

 

[sniper]

But even if the clen came from the cow, what the f**K was the cow doing with plastizer in its system??????

Funny you should mention that. In fact, this is exactly why Contador stressed in his statement that the meat brought in by the cook was VACUUM-PACKED. (Just re-read his statement on the day the case broke, and you'll see that he explicitly mentions the vacuumpackaging of the meat.)
Needless to say, he had already been informed about the plasticizers by the UCI way before the story broke in the press.

 

[Altitude]

Not enough attention is given to the fact that Aldirto Clentadope opted not to defend his Spanish national TT title due to "a touch of the flu." In Spain "a touch of the flu" actually means "losing another 2 kilos before the Tour via Clenbuterol, then extracting a touch of blood to be transfused on the 2nd rest day."

 

[frenchfry]

Dear Frenchfry, why single out 1 point, when I provide 4? Ever heard of the sum of the data? Plus, I said: "if you've followed the newscoverage, then...". Aparently you haven't followed the coverage, cuz in other articles it is made clear that, right after Ovch. had tested positive, his teammates (no, not his uncle in Germany, but his teammates) were also tested for clenb., which is a standard backup procedure if someone tests positive for clenb.

I only singled out 1 point because it was the one that interested me. I am lazy and answering 1 point is pretty much my limit.

I try to follow the coverage, but there is so much doping news lately it is tough to keep up. In fact, my first reaction was to take your comment at face value because I had remembered "teammates" having tested for clen and not "other people". It was only after I reread the cyclingnews article that this thread was started with that I realised the reference was "other people", which you must admit is not the same thing thus my edit. Since reporting is often inaccurate, I now do not know if it was indeed teammates.

I stand by my comment that it is pretty strange that a reason for getting off is other teammates testing positive when for me it would be the opposite - ie teammates positive would likely signal team doping.

 

[Merckx index]

In this case, the high sensitivity of the test worked in the athlete's favor. His teammates were tested apparently after he had tested positive, and if they got CB from contaminated meat,their levels after several days would have to be extremely low. And they were, reportedly as low as 2 pg/ml. By picking up that trace amount, the tests supported the contamination theory.

And I don't think they ate liver, take that, Dr. Ramos.

But Ayotte is being willfully obtuse when she says the low level could indicate doping. Since Bert tested negative the day before, this is not a case of a small amount detected many days after a large, doping dose was taken. The only alternative to contaminated meat remains transfusion. Ayotte has to know this, presumably she doesn't want to mention it since the DEHP test is still not officially announced. But she's not doing anyone a service by ignoring the fact that in this case we do know something about the "time" of the administration.

 

[euphrades]

Not enough attention is given to the fact that Aldirto Clentadope opted not to defend his Spanish national TT title due to "a touch of the flu." In Spain "a touch of the flu" actually means "losing another 2 kilos before the Tour via Clenbuterol, then extracting a touch of blood to be transfused on the 2nd rest day."

I bet the flu was from the clen he took after the DL.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

But Ayotte is being willfully obtuse when she says the low level could indicate doping. Since Bert tested negative the day before, this is not a case of a small amount detected many days after a large, doping dose was taken. The only alternative to contaminated meat remains transfusion. Ayotte has to know this, presumably she doesn't want to mention it since the DEHP test is still not officially announced. But she's not doing anyone a service by ignoring the fact that in this case we do know something about the "time" of the administration.

Perhaps rather than 'willfully obtuse' we could say 'strategically exclusionary'...

She's not going to say that someone's done something without the proof. But the theme is still there. Perhaps the lab rats of the world are just holding off until a DEHP test is certified by the larger gonads of the sporting world.

The main point of starting this thread was to show other international docs actually working to stem the hemmorage of the sport that doping has become. Good work, braniacs!

 

[sniper]

The only alternative to contaminated meat remains transfusion. Ayotte has to know this, presumably she doesn't want to mention it since the DEHP test is still not officially announced. But she's not doing anyone a service by ignoring the fact that in this case we do know something about the "time" of the administration.

..am in complete agreement..