Taking away Pantani's 1998 TdF win?

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In this scenario, should Pantani keep being recognised as the winner?

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Mich78BEL said:
If they go through with this and strip his 98 title then i'm done with cycling for good. Doping has been around forever might as well take all the titles away.

****ing double standard, why would Riis get to keep his title but Pantani or Armstrong have their titles stripped away. I never liked Armstrong but its not doping that is destroying the sport but the double standard and the rape of cycling history.

If you can't catch someone within a reasonable amount of time (even 8 years is already way too long) then the winner should stand (put an asterisk next to his name for all i care but not that No Winner crap). Cycling is getting more and more pathetic and dumb each year.
Interesting remark. I totally disagree. The double standards are merely molesting cycling, the pathetic dopers are who's raping it.

I don't see why you think it's getting MORE pathetic and dumb, they're simply revealing how pathetic and dumb it has been for quite some time.
 
Cloxxki said:
Pantani being less obnoxious than some doesn't make him less of a doper. He's like a Lemond who DID sell his soul to the docs and tried his luck and health on EPO.
And dying shouldn't exclude you from result adjustments. How long dead after a race would be the threshold? Say a tour winner crashes his new bought Ferrari (car) out of a Monaco corner weeks after winning in Paris. Tests are checked, a month of presidential hold up, and the results could come out after the funeral while the Vuelta has yet to start. Keep the win? I say no. You get to die "in the yellow" rather than get 60 years in shame to live through. That's enough luck, but the living won't need to see you as a winner after your passing.
Curious, how did LeMond "sell his soul to the docs"? What drs do you speak of?Admittedly, I'm not understanding your post, explain?
 
May 12, 2010
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86TDFWinner said:
Curious, how did LeMond "sell his soul to the docs"? What drs do you speak of?Admittedly, I'm not understanding your post, explain?
Maybe you should actucally read what he wrote.
 
86TDFWinner said:
Curious, how did LeMond "sell his soul to the docs"? What drs do you speak of?Admittedly, I'm not understanding your post, explain?
You're back, and still lacking in basic comprehension....
LeMond needs people like you defending him, as much as he needs Armstrong adjusting his brake pads.
 
Catwhoorg said:
5 years, 20 years or 50 years.

If they are proven to sufficient standard to have doped, strip the titles.

CAS can decide if that standard has been met if necessary.
Good point, but then: Merckx, Coppi, Hinault, Big Miggy and Fignon would all have to be stripped of titles, making them not the legends people have made them.

Miggy would be an afterthought, you really think Spain would allow that to happen? Or with Merckx/HINAULT?
 
Zweistein said:
I am 100% ok with it. It will help bring change to the sport because the ridicoluousness of it shows how incompentent the UCI was in governing the sport. How can the UCI say they did their job if every winner from 1998 - 2006 was stripped of their results? How can anyone say the UCI did anything?
This. Unfortunately, the SOL allows some to slip away unscathed.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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I misunderstood yesterday, it is all about B - sample tests. Like Hamilton in Athens but then reverse. So there is no way the UCI have grounds to dismantle the 1998 podium. SOL doesnt even applie.

Not that there should be any doubt whether Pantani' s samples will have epo in them.

On the other hand, it is more than possible McQuaid's comments were taken out of context.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
It amusing to see you invoke a guy like Bassons in your obsession when he said this last month, he isn't too concerned about the past:
If it wasn't for the "clean riders" of those days then this fight for those wins would be worthless to me. Besides, we have to count the other riders that were pushed out of the sport because of that. Mottet, Herrera, even Horner would be in this category back in the 90's. Many talented riders were left out.

If it wasn't for these riders then why fight. I venture to say that the essence of a clean rider is that one of the passive one. Otherwise if I was Moncoutie I would be fighting for one of those Armstrong wins. LOL. I want to see who challenges him first.
 
Oct 20, 2012
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Eshnar said:
Absolutely. Which is why UCI should start fixing this instead of messing with a guy who is certainly not a problem anymore (and can't even defend himself).
The rules were same back then and are the same now. No doping. If he was doped I think that he should be stripped from his tittle as happened with Lance Armstrong no matter if he is dead, which was very unfortunate but doesn't changes something about the doping issue. Same for anyone was doped back then.

If we want to see Cycling clean again, it has to become very clear that anyone who is caught doped, no matter when, is loosing everything. Titles, money ( and if it was in my hand even the chance to participate in any races again).
 
Jun 25, 2013
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alitogata said:
The rules were same back then and are the same now. No doping. If he was doped I think that he should be stripped from his tittle as happened with Lance Armstrong no matter if he is dead, which was very unfortunate but doesn't changes something about the doping issue. Same for anyone was doped back then.

If we want to see Cycling clean again, it has to become very clear that anyone who is caught doped, no matter when, is loosing everything. Titles, money ( and if it was in my hand even the chance to participate in any races again).
I agree with what you've said.
 
May 26, 2010
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42x16ss said:
The hilarious thing is that Fat Pat thinks it does :rolleyes:

So hoping this backfires on him with Voigt and O'Grady
I too hope it backfires with Voigt and O'Grady as they are still riding.

But I have no problem with any known dopers, alive or dead having their titles stripped.
 
Aug 24, 2010
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alitogata said:
If we want to see Cycling clean again, it has to become very clear that anyone who is caught doped, no matter when, is loosing everything. Titles, money ( and if it was in my hand even the chance to participate in any races again).
When was cycling clean?
 
Oct 20, 2012
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manafana said:
an asterik is enough the mans dead its pointless whipping the record now.
Why is pointless? The rules were and are rules.

What kind of message will the new athletes take if Pantani is not stripped of the tittle?

Live fast, dope well, win with whatever cost and if you die you'll have eternal glory???
Sorry but I really don't get something like this..

Perhaps Pantani was the best person in the world. But he is not judged for his character, nor for the way he lived his life in this case. If he cheated in TdF he doesn't deserve the title. End of story. :)
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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alitogata said:
Why is pointless? The rules were and are rules.

What kind of message will the new athletes take if Pantani is not stripped of the tittle?

Live fast, dope well, win with whatever cost and if you die you'll have eternal glory???
Sorry but I really don't get something like this..

Perhaps Pantani was the best person in the world. But he is not judged for his character, nor for the way he lived his life in this case. If he cheated in TdF he doesn't deserve the title. End of story. :)
What about the rules about the Statute of Limits?
What about the rules where you need an A & B sample?

He is not being judged, nor should be judged on his character. He is a doper, which has little to do with anyone's character.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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How are rules to be applied to the dead? :confused:

He could of done pretty much any or all illegal activities but once he died nothing can be done to him and bringing up his name again is only making his name all that memorable or allowing future generations to know who he was. Remember there is no "bad news" only increased marketing.

RIP Pantani.
 
Jun 25, 2013
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ElChingon said:
How are rules to be applied to the dead? :confused:
And what about justice for the ones that have been pursuing him for all these years based on their suspicions that he had been doping?
 
Jul 23, 2010
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darwin553 said:
And what about justice for the ones that have been pursuing him for all these years based on their suspicions that he had been doping?
If you mean that persons were pursuing Pantani for years although he was dead…perhaps they should have spent their time more wisely. A person who has died is “acquitted” from his sin, no? Then leave his results alone. You can’t flog a dead horse.

ETA: Well, you can, but the horse still won’t move.
 
Jun 25, 2013
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Microchip said:
If you mean that persons were pursuing Pantani for years although he was dead…perhaps they should have spent their time more wisely. A person who has died is “acquitted” from his sin, no? Then leave his results alone. You can’t flog a dead horse.

ETA: Well, you can, but the horse still won’t move.
Nah you can. The pursuit of justice for a cause or reason that you believe in shouldn't just end because the alleged perpetrator is dead, especially if the end result (i.e. taking away Pantani's title) enhances the sport's image for a zero tolerance towards dopers.
 
alitogata said:
Why is pointless? The rules were and are rules.

What kind of message will the new athletes take if Pantani is not stripped of the tittle?

Live fast, dope well, win with whatever cost and if you die you'll have eternal glory???
Sorry but I really don't get something like this..

Perhaps Pantani was the best person in the world. But he is not judged for his character, nor for the way he lived his life in this case. If he cheated in TdF he doesn't deserve the title. End of story. :)
Ok, would you want to be the one to tell Bernhard Hinault his wins are stripped if he is proven to have doped? I'd imagine that anyone who tried would end up missing some teeth :D
 
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