TdF Stage 12 - Fri 16th - Bourg-de-Péage - Mende 210.5km

[Dedelou]

Listen. I hate Contador. I hate with every fibre of my being. I think he is boring to watch and I think the fact that he's never been suspended is a disgrace to the sport.

THAT SAID, he did NOT attack his team-mate today. He saw Rodriguez go up the road, he knew what the gap to Vino was and he knew that Rodriguez would catch him and likely outsprint him for the stage, so he went after him to try to gain some time on the GC and maybe keep the stage win in the team. He tried to let Vino catch his wheel, and when that didn't work he tried to sprint for the win himself. He failed.

Nothing he did today was tactically unsound, and nothing he did today was contrary to the interests of his team. Of course Vino was annoyed crossing the line, he spent 100+km riding of the front and didn't win. I don't think there is any divide in the Astana camp this year.

An very important part of what decided the final outcome is what happened right before the start of the climb when several teams were chasing hard. Vino needed to keep a gap of over a minute to have a realistic chance to get the stage. The huge effort by Saxo and a few others players made that gap drop low enough that he was doomed. I have no information but somehow I can believe Astana had planned for a one and two finish. with Vino winning the stage and Alberto taking some time on Andy. ( I didn't see anything that would blemish Astana team during the pre-jalabert climb chase and contador attack was timed to cover Rodriguez.) Probably Vino disappointment is that he failed the plan.

 

[Cobblestones]

I'm pretty sure that if El Pistolero has done that Vino would have killed him right after finishing the stage... Vino is not that kind of person who gift stages and I know that AC knows it quite well... Vino killed himself FTW and AC had to do the same as he did... so NO Gifts from Astana today...

That's why I wrote 'in hindsight'. You know, with the knowledge that he'd lose the sprint anyway.

 

[Ryaguas]

Today was basically a 1km race, hardly comparable to a tough mountain stage that ends with an 18km climb.

That is true but gives us an inside view about who has the power and the energies to attack and those who can maintain with the group...

 

[mastersracer]

That is true but gives us an inside view about who has the power and the energies to attack and those who can maintain with the group...

funny, when Schleck gapped Contador a few days ago, people said it didn't mean anything...

 

[Dedelou]

It's all about interpretation, but if we look at history, today's tactics would suggest AC is once again, not a team player. AC has proven time and again that he is not a team man. He is taking after LA... win at all costs. Both bite.

The argument that Vino would not have been able to match Rod is faulty. At the end of the stage he was a mere few seconds behind the lead group. He may have eased up because he believed his team leader would get the stage win. Had Contadope not been there, we could have seen a battle between Vino and Rod. It is not fair to automatically assume Rod would have won anyway.

I feel badly for Vino... yet considering his history as well, then today's outcome is just desserts.

that thing dangling near the keyboard as you type.. Check it .. it is probably your nose that grew with every insincere comments you wrote.
Vino's chances to win disappeared 5 kilometers earlier when the "break" failed to keep the climbers from coming back. Vino is no match , specially after a long stage, for the like of explosive climbers as rodriguez.

 

[kukiniloa]

really? no, really?

An very important part of what decided the final outcome is what happened right before the start of the climb when several teams were chasing hard. Vino needed to keep a gap of over a minute to have a realistic chance to get the stage. The huge effort by Saxo and a few others players made that gap drop low enough that he was doomed. I have no information but somehow I can believe Astana had planned for a one and two finish. with Vino winning the stage and Alberto taking some time on Andy. ( I didn't see anything that would blemish Astana team during the pre-jalabert climb chase and contador attack was timed to cover Rodriguez.) Probably Vino disappointment is that he failed the plan.

It's amazing that Bertie can affect such emotions.

I mean, he's really just a dumb kid from the boondocks made good. OK, dumb might be too strong, but he's the guy of guy who will probably be taken advantage of by agents all of his life. This kinds of puts LAs toying with him last year, on and off of the bike, in perspective.

Why anyone could express "hate" towards Alberto Contador, is flabbergasting. Why cool aid are you drinking?

 

[Ryaguas]

That's why I wrote 'in hindsight'. You know, with the knowledge that he'd lose the sprint anyway.

Oh sorry... Wasn't my intention to change the meaning of your opinion... English is not my main language, Spanish and French are...

 

[kukiniloa]

American Pride

I was crestfallen that Farrar DNF'd today. This Tour is setting up to have been the poorest for Americans in...well, several years, I guess.

Who do American fans look to for success now?

Usually when the answer to this question is Levi Leipheimer it is accepted with resignation, as it is this year.

But he seemed to be climbing well on the steeper sections, and although he did lose a little time today, it was after an attack on a short climb, the sort that doesn't allow his ultra-slow twitch muscle fibers to get in gear for. He time trials well, could he make the podium (i.e., 3rd, of course)?

 

[Cobblestones]

Oh sorry... Wasn't my intention to change the meaning of your opinion... English is not my main language, Spanish and French are...

No problem.

 

[Ryaguas]

funny, when Schleck gapped Contador a few days ago, people said it didn't mean anything...

Cuz Schleck gapped in the flat part of the climb with an inclination of 2.3%... AC gapped at 10.9%...

 

[Mellow Velo]

funny, when Schleck gapped Contador a few days ago, people said it didn't mean anything...

Well, I may be daft, but I'd say today confirmed that.........didn't it?

Gesink will blow or crash, Menchow 3rd GC overall. Menchov looks sweet.

Thanks for that, but I'd prefer to have the opinion of someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It's amazing that Bertie can affect such emotions.

I mean, he's really just a dumb kid from the boondocks made good. OK, dumb might be too strong, but he's the guy of guy who will probably be taken advantage of by agents all of his life. This kinds of puts LAs toying with him last year, on and off of the bike, in perspective.

This is the type of comment born and bred from watching too much Versus.

Oh well. This the month that Lance fans take a passing interest in cycling after all.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I was crestfallen that Farrar DNF'd today. This Tour is setting up to have been the poorest for Americans in...well, several years, I guess.

Who do American fans look to for success now?

What does "American fans" mean? You mean fans of American riders? Or cycling fans who are American?

Because many of us who fall into the latter category don't automatically cheer for the American guy.

 

[CatsNK]

Oh well. This the month that Lance fans take a passing interest in cycling after all.

ROFL! You've got that right!

 

[Benotti69]

Oh well. This the month that Lance fans take their last passing interest in cycling after all.

thankfully and then they can all crawl, slime and hobble back into the bayou

 

[Dedelou]

Contador thinks only about himself(not judging him, that something every GC contender must do). I`m surprised how Denis and VDB rode today. They were very good up in the fron but they just don`t have the acceleration of AC, I think that if that climb lasted for 2km more poursuivants would cath up with AC and Rodriguez they were very strong, much stronger than on Madelaine.

I am always a little put off when we try to explain was was with explanations that start with "if this or if that" IF something was different than of course it wouldn't be the same. And if the stage to Mende was the Madeleine they would ride it accordingly. As far back as November 2009 you can find comments from many of the contenders stating: Watch out for the climb to the "aerodrome" I am sure every top team had a plan for today.. only they know if they met their own expectations. The results however stands for what they are: A small time gain for AC and for Vino. (10 s and 4 s ) and a huge huge psychological win for Astana over Saxo. The time gain was acheived without burning too much team power. As somebody was pointing earlier AC domestics were resting today

 

[flicker]

Well, I may be daft, but I'd say today confirmed that.........didn't it?



Thanks for that, but I'd prefer to have the opinion of someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Oh sorry velo lance for third

 

[Benotti69]

...he's the guy of guy....

...who will probably be taken advantage of by agents all of his life.

WTF are you blabbering about , guy of guy????

Agents?, his brother you mean.

 

[roundabout]

Astana could have gained a lot more, but they had to take at easy to let the boss have a chance. End result - no stage win and a negligible gain on Schleck's bad day.

 

[Dedelou]

Whose reaction? yours? mine? those who killed Kennedy? Astana? I mean where does talking about Armstrong comes to play in a discussion about the results of the stage to Mende? The topic i thought was : Stage 12 of the 2010 TDF. Something is way too referential here to be legitimate.

 

[hfer07]

besides of the BS written here about AC denying Vino the stage-non-sense-melodramatic-whining-- AC just proved today he's just toying with ASchleck-those 10 secs are a psychological punch of enormous damaging proportion and puts even more pressure on Saxo to burn out the men in the next days to intent something to steal seconds on AC before the Tourmalet-which is without a doubt-where he is going to win the Tour...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

DT: Do you see Rabo surprising us on Sunday?
They are the only team with two GC threats.
Are they going to ride the Pyreneean stages conservatively; protecting both men in the GC, or are they going to go for broke and try something daring?
If so, what do you think it will be?

They are not far away enough to attack. If Menchov or Gesink would try to attack on an early climb, they wouldn't get away. And even on the final climb I think Contador cs would immediately counter.
However, I hope Gesink forgets the tactic of hanging with the group and waiting for the accelerations he can't follow.
I hope he goes back to the tactic of going in to the lead and dictating the pace himself.
Don't look back, don't react if somebody accelerates.
If Gesink can dictate/ride his own pace from bottom to top of a climb, only very very few have something left to ride away, possibly only Schleck and Contador. But if he waits again and lets the race happen, he has a much harder time.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

For those asking what LA would have done in a similar situation, it's right there for you in 2004 stage 17, with Flandis playing the role of today's Vino no less. Sure, not exactly the same circumstances but close enough.

LA came from behind to go for the win when Flandis looked like he couldn't get the job done.

 

[Dedelou]

Well, let me see if I am Vino.
When I was going up by myself, I see Contador pulling Rodriguez past me.
When I was crossing the line, I don't see Andy in front of me. So all explanation is correct. The outcome, having come so close and what Contador did to me. What Contador did to Andy, he did not know at that time since Andy was behind him.

Sounds more like if Vino was you. But apparently you are no Vino. Now IF I WAS Vino.. (Boy would i make my weekend warriors club riders suffer) And my team leader and teammate came up to me, shadowing a much faster rider on a mission with about half a kilometer to the line when I am struggling to stay up front I would smile , I would do my best to take his wheel. I would take a long breath for now i finally have a a 2 on 1. Then about 20 meters from the line i would burst past both Ac and Joachim. Then i would watch the world with a great smile and hold AC hand in the air and the crowd would cheer , the music would be playing in the background. Childs would have tears in their eyes and their mothers would point at me with admiration. Now why can't I be Vino.. please. Please please.. Can't you not see how easy I can make him win.

 

[Anonymous]

Whose reaction? yours? mine? those who killed Kennedy? Astana? I mean where does talking about Armstrong comes to play in a discussion about the results of the stage to Mende? The topic i thought was : Stage 12 of the 2010 TDF. Something is way too referential here to be legitimate.

Dude, ease off the glue. I was merely pointing out that if Armstrong had something similar, the reactions (mine included-I would have gone ballistic) would have been different. If you need to make a Federal case out of it, I think Novitsky is busy, so you are going to need to find someone else...