TDF Stage 14: Saint-Gaudens - Plateau de Beille 168km

[etymology]

A class ahead of everybody. I did feel the air blowing even in front of EurosportTV. He silenced everyone with this.

the *real* tactical error of andy's final "attack": he miscalculated his own awesomeness by going far *too* fast. instead of a slipstream, this never before seen velocity created a *draft* which, in fact, rendered useless pedaling by everyone in his wake...he actually sucked the rest of the group to the finish line.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Originally Posted by The Hitch

I was one of the Evans fans on this forum, but I think his entire advantage is undeserved, unearnt, he got it from the ttt on half his rivals and from a ttt+ crashes on a few more, and is desperately trying to hold on to this gifted advantage so i feel he hasnt earnt one second of his advantage and whether anyone else cares or not, my 2 cents are that i hope he loses.

I don't know how you can dislike someone because others were unlucky. I agree that TTTs skew results a bit unfairly though.

Yeah, I agree with Lucky. Everyone knows that a strong team and good luck is part of the racing. So no point in crying foul about that.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Omega Pharma Lotto was such a big factor in this Tour if you think about it

It's them who caused the crash in the peloton and decided to give the break a lot of free minutes.

IS dominating this Tour, they have 3 different riders wining stages, also JVDB would now be second overall and the biggest favorite for the win. Too bad they are splitting in the end of the year.

 

[goggalor]

I don't know how you can dislike someone because others were unlucky. I agree that TTTs skew results a bit unfairly though.

Then again Evans lost time in the TTT in 2009, and was almost three minutes down on Contador before the mountains. He then attacked on the first climb on the stage after Andorre Arcalis.

 

[Tuarts]

No, because SBS is the only TV station broadcasting the Tour, and Anthony Tan is on that broadcast virtually every night.

Pardon me - thought you might have seen him.

Twice and as a fill-in I presume because they can't get Rupert or Phil Anderson.

Because I want to hear the thoughts of tomalaris and the other geniuses they get on the show?

Oh yeah, I guess being a cycling fan means I have to pay attention to a bunch of nitwits. just because.

They spend to much time juggling and accommodating leisure fans or the July crowd. Great to get you interested in cycling but once you know a bit..

Hoping Matt Keenan start becoming more of a focal point.

 

[UlleGigo]

Of course if he grows some balls during the next week, or gets his fair share of bad luck then fights on to try to win the Tour, my 2 cents might change and i could be back to cheering for him.

You're right no one has ever won the tour in the past by avoiding bad luck. So why should Cadel be any different.

 

[The Hitch]

Again I'm new to cycling so i want to ask. Why do a lot of people think that Contador will beat Andt easily? He wasn't able to drop him when climbing last year and now he's hurt. Also i couldn't find an ITT from the last few years where Contador gain more on Andy than a gap that is between them now. It's because of Contador reputation and hate of Schlecks or am I missing something?

The reason they might its because when Contador has been at his best - Tour 09 and Giro 2011 he pretty much decides how much time he wants to put in on his rivals.

Its the legend of it. Contador hasnt lost a grand tour since he won the 2007 Tour. So even though he should be tired from the Giro, you just never know. Because Contador at his best can take 2 minutes on Andy on each of the last 3 gc stages.

 

[ggusta]

I must recognized I should have acknowledged those guys--my frustrations is of the GC riders-specially the Schleck bros-and I'd say Evans too- how long are they going to wait until they put a serious attack?-- aren't they realizing that the closer they get to the 3rd week & the ITT with those tactics, the greater the risk is they loose the race in a bad day? -- honestly Contador must be laughing know...

Today they could have completely eliminated AC and shown themselves as the true force to be reckoned with, in particular Andy and the Leopard Trek. Andy showed himself to be a weak attacker and the team showed itself to be dumb. AC now has a short flat stage to recover followed by a recovery day followed by the portion of the race that he had targeted as the determing portion of the race.

1. Schlecks let him back in.
2. 'Necks' attack like pu$$ies. They put no one in danger at any time.
3. AC survived with the same 2second loss as everyone else to Neck the Younger.
4. Cadel put in 1 strong attack. No one had any problems with. He had no 2nd attack but I would still be thrilled if he won. [Edited, just to make it clear, I would take him any day after AC]
5. The race is largely 'between the ears'. Leopard Trek is now down and AC is off the canvas. Others are now believing they have a better shot than they did last night.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Because Contador at his best can take 2 minutes on Andy on each of the last 3 gc stages.

That's nonsense, and you know it. Even up Verbier in 2009, maybe Bertie's finest moment, he only took 40 odd seconds on Andy.

 

[Delicato]

Evans literally "was convinced a 100%" he would win the 08 TDF in the final ITT, since he was confidence of his ability to take back all that time on Sastre-but guess what-CSC put a extremely hard pace the day before the ITT and soften Evan's legs......
Sastre has always been "an average" ITT-only the MTT he was better....

On topic: now it does not matter if he's currently in front of Andy at all- is the "time buffer" that he must "widen" to ensure that no sudden surprise or incident would compromise his advantage in the Alps-and that to me is the risk that he's taking & rather shouldn't, considering that AC is not in shape, and the Schlecks seem to be more worried about berto than him(Evans) - so i ask myself - why not profit on that?

I remember that. Was a huge mistake by him to overestimate his abilities,definitely .
My point on Sastre was that he can be very solid on the TT on the third week of GC (and sometimes even on the first-check the results of the 2008 Vuelta) because of his stamina and recovery. Outside of GT, when there is no fatigue-of course he is mediocre, to say the least. That is why he lost less than minute to Evans in 2008 TDF.

It does matter, that he is ahead of Andy-we had two brutal mountaintop finishes-and he lost grand total of 2 seconds to Andy. 50% of his task is complete. I understand that this is a bit of gamble- I mean, wait for the ITT. But this is what he must do and he does. He is great hilly classics rider but not great in high mountains (I am talking about his ability to attack and take time) and he only can stay on attackers' wheels. Even though Schlecks are only bothered with AC, they will surely close the gap when Evans attacks. He can LIMIT his time losses on Andy and Frank(or even don't lose anything at all) but he can't GAIN any time on them in the mountains (barring force majeure). It is as simple as that.

 

[rides like a girl]

Again I'm new to cycling so i want to ask. Why do a lot of people think that Contador will beat Andt easily? He wasn't able to drop him when climbing last year and now he's hurt. Also i couldn't find an ITT from the last few years where Contador gain more on Andy than a gap that is between them now. It's because of Contador reputation and hate of Schlecks or am I missing something?

Last year AC wasn't in his best form at the tour and he beat Andy. I don't think anyone here thinks AC can get all the deficit back on just the ITT. I think AC is getting nods from many as they have seen what he did in the Giro and what Andy has not done this year as reasons to think AC might be able to get time in the Alps to lower the deficit and then get the rest in the ITT.

It doesn't hurt that the Schlecks themselves seem preoccupied with him. If they weren't worried about him and happy with the time gap they have, why keep looking at him? They should just ride and get time back on the guys ahead of them in the GC, but they look at a guy who is behind them.

There is a backlash with the Schlecks too. Today's stage is a great example why people doubt them. They had AC on the ropes two days ago, and they didn't attack with determination to finish him off. That makes one doubt their capability to finish him off.

 

[etymology]

Again I'm new to cycling so i want to ask. Why do a lot of people think that Contador will beat Andt easily? He wasn't able to drop him when climbing last year and now he's hurt. Also i couldn't find an ITT from the last few years where Contador gain more on Andy than a gap that is between them now. It's because of Contador reputation and hate of Schlecks or am I missing something?

the best way to answer your question is to suggest you stick around and read this forum for a few months - you will gain cycling knowledge and learn why and how it is possible for some to despise and others to love the same rider. some of the folks here may seem a bit gruff now and then - try not to take responses too personally.

as in any sport - on a forum or face to face, differences in opinion and levels of knowledge and favoritism can and do create some real barn-burning ****ing matches. this is a great forum for both learning AND pontificatin. one thing everyone here has in common: a passion for cycling. give yourself and this forum a chance..i am pretty sure if your skin is thicker than a few milimeters, you will not be disappointed AND can look forwart to the day when you can get enter into a well0-informed ****ing match!

personally, i don't hate either of the schlecks. i kinda' like andy because off his bike, he is a goofball. there is no doubt he has talent...if only he would actually *use* his talent. races are not won by constantly looking around, by being overly concerned about one's competition. races are won by knowing when and how to use those talents...and letting the competion try to match or surpass what you have.

self-doubt and/or seemingly obsessive fear/worry about everyone else can crush the most talented rider who lacks confidence...or lacks the will to take the battle to one's rivals.

in *my* opinion, of course.

 

[goggalor]

I think we saw a lot of tired riders today. The pre-mountains racing has been very hard and entertaining this year. Contador said he was knackered after the first week, even without any mountain stages or ITTs, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the fireworks were wet today. Besides, this is the Tour, a dull mountain stage or two is nothing new.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's nonsense, and you know it. Even up Verbier in 2009, maybe Bertie's finest moment, he only took 40 odd seconds on Andy.

Yea, but Verbier's not an especially long or especially difficult climb.

 

[The Hitch]

That's nonsense, and you know it. Even up Verbier in 2009, maybe Bertie's finest moment, he only took 40 odd seconds on Andy.

Ah yes, the leg breaking Hors Catergory Mont Verbier that was precceeded by a day of horrid HC climbing.

Oh wait

 

[Lanark]

Yea, but Verbier's not an especially long or especially difficult climb.

True, but a 'short' explosive finish is only in Contador's favor. Looking at the last 2 Tours, there is really no evidence to suggest Contador can take 2 minutes on Andy Schleck on any mountain.

 

[VemrJR?]

Think the Schlecks showed this week they just don't have what it takes to win in the biggest race. Up against competitors who for a vareity of reasons weren't at the top of the game (Evans, BAsso, Contador), they contented themselves with trainspotting and never really put the others to the test, something which will yet come back to haunt them, even if Contador does not recover sufficeintly, Evans will probably put them in their place, and does anyone know just what Voeckler's limits are.

They've got a cracking team set, but Cancellara, Monfort and Voigt deserve better leaders.

 

[El Pistolero]

True, but a 'short' explosive finish is only in Contador's favor. Looking at the last 2 Tours, there is really no evidence to suggest Contador can take 2 minutes on Andy Schleck on any mountain.

If we compare his 2007 time on Plateau de Beille with Andy's time now Hugeee difference.

But Contador wasn't at top level in 2010 and this year he already did a Giro(when did Andy ever pull out 6.6 watts per kilogram on a climb like the Etna?)

 

[Lanark]

If we compare his 2007 time on Plateau de Beille with Andy's time now Hugeee difference.

If we compare Andy's 2007 time on Zoncolan with Contador's of this year, hugeeee difference. Unfortunately, those days are gone, but that's clinic material. If you look at the last 3 years, Contador has never been able to put two minutes on Andy Schleck in any mountain.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

True, but a 'short' explosive finish is only in Contador's favor. Looking at the last 2 Tours, there is really no evidence to suggest Contador can take 2 minutes on Andy Schleck on any mountain.

Is a short finish really in Contador's favour over a guy who's won LBL?

 

[Parrulo]

Is a short finish really in Contador's favour over a guy who's won LBL, and finished 2nd on the fleche wallone?

added more stuff
btw contador's time on the zoncolan is pretty much nibali's time he only attacked nibali with 500 meters to go after nibali had spent 4 or 5k trying to drop contador( pointless but at least he tried unlike the schlecks today and friday)

 

[musorowegudo]

Hmmmm . . . .

To the French, hooray we still have the Yellow Jersey despite all odds . . .

To AC fans, you managed to drag the race to your turf without losing time, the Alps . . . we will wait and see . .

To the fans of Cuddles, Basso, Samu et al, the race is heating up . . all did show they are still in there . .

To ASO + Paul Sherwen, the pencil necks messed the opportunity to dislodge their BIGGEST threat today . . AC seems to be recovering

The race goes on and we are watching from the summit . . .

 

[Lanark]

Is a short finish really in Contador's favour over a guy who's won LBL?

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean he would take 2 minutes on a longer climb. Maybe I wasn't expressing myself clearly. Contador is a rider who's at his best at a 5 to 6 kilometer uphill 'sprint' at the end of a mountain. Verbier was a short climb, but if it was longer, he wouldn't suddenly attack with 15 kilometers to go and win with 2 minutes instead of the 40 seconds he got now. Contador is at his best with a real power explosion, not a long endurance effort (not that he is incapable of doing that of course).

I just don't see how the shortness of Verbier is an argument that he would take more time on a longer climb, or is capable of taking 2 minutes on Schleck in a climb.

 

[ggusta]

my hero

Why the long face?

Sorry if 8 people beat me to it.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Ah yes, the leg breaking Hors Catergory Mont Verbier that was precceeded by a day of horrid HC climbing.

Oh wait

Fair point. Of course, there's all those other examples though when Bertie took 2 mins out of Andy.