Team DSM thread

[AlfaLum]

So, the cat's out of the bag. Van Wilder and DSM are going to court. I'm not a lawyer, but i'm seeing some issues here, that maybe DSM overlooked from a tactical pespective. While DSM may think this is as simple as having a signed agreement, i believe going to court opens up a possible shitstorm raining down on them, as the court could waver any signed NDA they may have had with former riders, and allow testimonies under oath that can establish a pattern in how they treat their riders. Former teammates who would hesitate to lash out in the press or media now suddenly might be called to witness and testify under oath. Frankly i don't understand they let it come to this. I know Van Wilder asked his lawyers to suggest settling out of court, but supposedly DSM didn't want to budge on the fee and left him no other option. Now if they "win" they get to keep a disgruntled rider or they can cash in a modest fee corresponding his current wages. Big whoop. But if they lose... what does that tell the outside world about them? All the coocoo stories are true. Good luck finding a rider to commit to their ways in the future. We wouldn't even need to hear or know what has been said in court, to understand they have lost touch with reality. Because otherwise they would never have let it come to this and lose. Not to forget, all that just to stick it to Van Wilder. Genius. They have so little to gain, and so much to lose. In fact, they may want to make that their slogan, it's fitting.

DSM - little to gain, much to lose.

I also wonder if the court will inquire about them letting all other riders leave, except Van Wilder, and why exactly that is.

Why would they let a lot of former riders come forward with their story? It's a Dutch court, it doesn't seem very likely to me that riders such as Hirschi , or any other rider for that matter, will actually be called upon to testify.

And as to so much to lose, seems to me that a lot of the damage is already done anyway.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Here's a theory.

Dumoulin shat himself cause team managment didn't let him go to the toilet in the morning.

wouldn't surprise me tbh

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Why would they let a lot of former riders come forward with their story? It's a Dutch court, it doesn't seem very likely to me that riders such as Hirschi , or any other rider for that matter, will actually be called upon to testify.

And as to so much to lose, seems to me that a lot of the damage is already done anyway.

Because from the information that i'm getting, they make it a habit to make certain agreements or promises if you will, that are used to entice riders to sign up without actually being included in the actual contract.
That's a big incentive to leave in case they do not hold up to their end of the deal. But other riders would need to corroberate that. For starters.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Van Wilder takes legal action in bid to leave Team DSM

Team accuse Belgian talent of 'a discrediting trial by media' as they prepare to meet in court

www.cyclingnews.com

Team accuse Belgian talent of 'a discrediting trial by media' as they prepare to meet in court

looooooooool

Team does a preemptive long interview with Wielerflits stating they acknowledge the rumors reported by said medium, stating they will not let him leave. This being prior to any interview or statement made by Van Wilder, who has since barely commented on the subject, other than through one Strava and Instagram blip.

 

[Red Rick]

Van Wilder takes legal action in bid to leave Team DSM

Team accuse Belgian talent of 'a discrediting trial by media' as they prepare to meet in court

www.cyclingnews.com

looooooooool

Team does a preemptive long interview with Wielerflits stating they acknowledge the rumors reported by said medium, stating they will not let him leave. This being prior to any interview or statement made by Van Wilder, who has since barely commented on the subject, other than through one Strava and Instagram blip.

Of all the parallel universes we could've been born in, we had to be born in one where Evenepoel wasn't signed by DSM

 

[Mayomaniac]

Meanwhile Garofoli has terminated his contract with their developmental team because it was too much of a hostile enviorment for him (his own words).

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Meanwhile Garofoli has terminated his contract with their developmental team because it was too much of a hostile enviorment for him (his own words).

And it is rumoured he will move to Astana or their new U23 team.

 

[Mayomaniac]

And it is rumoured he will move to Astana or their new U23 team.

Italian media are reporting that him to their new developmental team is a done deal.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Italian media are reporting that him to their new developmental team is a done deal.

Is that actually a new team, or is it as earlier rumoured just going to be a continuation of Colpack?

 

[greyclouds]

So, the cat's out of the bag. Van Wilder and DSM are going to court. I'm not a lawyer, but i'm seeing some issues here, that maybe DSM overlooked from a tactical pespective. While DSM may think this is as simple as having a signed agreement, i believe going to court opens up a possible shitstorm raining down on them, as the court could waver any signed NDA they may have had with former riders, and allow testimonies under oath that can establish a pattern in how they treat their riders. Former teammates who would hesitate to lash out in the press or media now suddenly might be called to witness and testify under oath. Frankly i don't understand they let it come to this. I know Van Wilder asked his lawyers to suggest settling out of court, but supposedly DSM didn't want to budge on the fee and left him no other option. Now if they "win" they get to keep a disgruntled rider or they can cash in a modest fee corresponding his current wages. Big whoop. But if they lose... what does that tell the outside world about them? All the coocoo stories are true. Good luck finding a rider to commit to their ways in the future. We wouldn't even need to hear or know what has been said in court, to understand they have lost touch with reality. Because otherwise they would never have let it come to this and lose. Not to forget, all that just to stick it to Van Wilder. Genius. They have so little to gain, and so much to lose. In fact, they may want to make that their slogan, it's fitting.

DSM - little to gain, much to lose.

I also wonder if the court will inquire about them letting all other riders leave, except Van Wilder, and why exactly that is.

What a shitstorm. I cannot believe that DSM is willing to go to court for such a petty case. I can see IVW's case, but even without going there, in the end of the day they were just not a good fit for each other. Let the rider go, either for free or for a symbolic fee - which I'm sure some teams would be willing to pay, there's a lot of young talent out there but most is tied in.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Is that actually a new team, or is it as earlier rumoured just going to be a continuation of Colpack?

Italian websites are reporting that they are taking over a well established Italian u23 team with a long history and they are mainly namedropping Colpack. The description would also fit Zalf, but no idea.

 

[staubsauger]

Why would they let a lot of former riders come forward with their story? It's a Dutch court, it doesn't seem very likely to me that riders such as Hirschi , or any other rider for that matter, will actually be called upon to testify.

And as to so much to lose, seems to me that a lot of the damage is already done anyway.

Weren't inter alia Breukink, Boogerd & Dekker summoned by the Dutch court during the Rasmussen case against Rabobank!?

 

[Monte Serra]

Weren't inter alia Breukink, Boogerd & Dekker summoned by the Dutch court during the Rasmussen case against Rabobank!?

I looked it up, and Breukink and De Rooij testified, as they were part of Rabobank's team management. No riders were heard, as far as I know.

Boogerd and Thomas Dekker were heard for another case, but that one was centered in Austria, and divulging in those details won't be fitting for this sub-forum.

 

[WKA311]

Italian websites are reporting that they are taking over a well established Italian u23 team with a long history and they are mainly namedropping Colpack. The description would also fit Zalf, but no idea.

The plan was to take over Colpack but as of today it was reported that it fell through. Not enough time left to iron out the details.

 

[Monte Serra]

Why would they let a lot of former riders come forward with their story? It's a Dutch court, it doesn't seem very likely to me that riders such as Hirschi , or any other rider for that matter, will actually be called upon to testify.

And as to so much to lose, seems to me that a lot of the damage is already done anyway.

Former riders can theoretically be subpoenaed to testify. But if they want to settle the case quickly, it does seem to be a bit cumbersome to have a whole range of witnesses, who might not be very eager to talk, and who are not directly involved in the current conflict.

Rasmussen apparently asked Thomas Dekker to corroborate his story in court, but he was unwilling to do so. He could have been subpoenaed, but why force someone to come who is not going to help your case?

I doubt that riders as Hirschi and Dumoulin want revisit that past work conflicts in court, and the most they can do is corroborate the obsessive micromanagement style of DSM. And that team management is obsessive has been well established, not least by the team management themselves. So most interesting for Van Wilders legal team would be to properly grill Spekenbrink, Kenna, and Roberts.

 

[Breezy1985]

Another rider gone. Will they have a team next season ?

Martin Salmon to leave Team DSM

German unsure whether he will continue his career

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Leinster]

It's not clear from the article if Salmon is leaving, of if DSM just didn't renew his contract.

If it's the former, "I'll either ride for anyone else, or retire," doesn't look good on DSM.

 

[WKA311]

Its just a plain normal "not renewing his contract" thing. Nothing to do with the usual DSM shenanigans.

 

[Leinster]

Nico Roche did an interview with Pippa York about retiring from the sport. Some interesting comments about how DSM run their ship.

Retirement chronicles: When Philippa York met Nicolas Roche

'If everyone is telling me I’m too old, then maybe I should realise the sport is changing and I should look at other things' say Irishman

www.cyclingnews.com

Worth pointing out, the article says Nico is 34; he’s actually 37.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nico Roche did an interview with Pippa York about retiring from the sport. Some interesting comments about how DSM run their ship.

Retirement chronicles: When Philippa York met Nicolas Roche

'If everyone is telling me I’m too old, then maybe I should realise the sport is changing and I should look at other things' say Irishman

www.cyclingnews.com

They want their riders to be RC drones, with no input of their own. When they do give that input or question what's being asked of them, they are immediately met with reprimand. The team also works with "report cards" and for riders who question what's being asked of them, this results in a well rounded number on that report card. Instead of explaining why exactly they ask their riders to stick to this or that path, they find it's none of the riders' business and they should blindly do what is asked of them. The "cooperation factor" that they keep babbling about, is really a one-way street. It means, we tell you what to do, you do it - no questions asked - and thus we will be "cooperating" very well.

They also seem to think the riders don't talk with each other.

 

[Sandisfan]

Nico Roche did an interview with Pippa York about retiring from the sport. Some interesting comments about how DSM run their ship.

Retirement chronicles: When Philippa York met Nicolas Roche

'If everyone is telling me I’m too old, then maybe I should realise the sport is changing and I should look at other things' say Irishman

www.cyclingnews.com

They want their riders to be RC drones, with no input of their own. When they do give that input or question what's being asked of them, they are immediately met with reprimand. The team also works with "report cards" and for riders who question what's being asked of them, this results in a well rounded number on that report card. Instead of explaining why exactly they ask their riders to stick to this or that path, they find it's none of the riders' business and they should blindly do what is asked of them. The "cooperation factor" that they keep babbling about, is really a one-way street. It means, we tell you what to do, you do it - no questions asked - and thus we will be "cooperating" very well.

They also seem to think the riders don't talk with each other.

Logic that makes me wonder if they have ever gave a bad grade to someone who at the right time took a chance and won a race.

 

[HelloDolly]

What stands out from Nico's comment is their desire to follow a protocol no matter what ...to the exception of wining or individual talent or anything else. As if riders are only cogs in a machine and not individuals. I know for Roche the young sport scientists with the data tables setting the training agenda above all else didnt work . And also the in ability to discuss or question tactics seems very limiting especially for any rider with flair or experience

But what I don;t get is that they don;t seem to have grasped that what they are doing is in the long run counter productive as all their talent abandons them. What price freedom eh ?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Logic that makes me wonder if they have ever gave a bad grade to someone who at the right time took a chance and won a race.

Not specifically.

 

[BlueRoads]

Are there any books about the different teams and how they work? Comparisons with rider interviews, analyses and such? I would love to read that, as I find it very interesting.

 

[HelloDolly]

I guess Roche could write a book given he has been to SKY and BMC, Saxo, Tinkoff and DSM

I think its alot to do with the personality of who is in charge