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Team Ineos Discussion thread

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David Walsh did an article on Ineos which sums up what everyone can see in terms of their decline and hints at the owners losing interest and cutting costs, with comments from insiders such as (on Del Toro): “Do you not think we realised that?” an Ineos insider said. “We tried to recruit him but were told we didn’t have the budget and he ended up going to UAE Team Emirates.”

What's amusing is, after all the talk of not being relevant or lacking the top talents, about how the "generation change" has transformed the sport, he suggested Cav could bring back the glory days. Somehow I don't think a recently retired sprinter managing the team would turn them around but hey, there would be some fireworks.

link (paywalled)


Personally, I'm not sure Ineos will still be around in a couple of years.
I'm not sure they will, either. That said, the UK deserves a WT team. I'd be happy to see a mid-budget team that featured UK/Irish riders, much like Uno-X does. They have plenty of very good riders and if not for covid and Rodriguez's shocker of a Tour (I thought he might be fighting for 3rd) you wouldn't necessarily be pessimistic about the team's fuur

They might have to have a sit down with Pidcock after this year and ask him if he really wants to be a road rider. He has the talent but not the focus (understandable since he's so good at XC.
 
I understand letting TGH, Sivakov and Martinez go. There were question marks over all of them, for different reasons.

But Carapaz and Adam Yates are more than simply good riders. They were both performing at a very high level for Ineos before leaving the team. To me they are exactly the type of riders that will keep you afloat when you have none of the top guys and hence no shot at winning the TdF. I mean, put them in this year's roster and Ineos' Tour de France performance suddenly doesn't look as bleak as it was.
I struggle to see how this happens if there's no budget reduction.
The big pay rises in the contract extensions I mentioned have cancelled out the savings from riders like Carapaz and Adam Yates leaving. Arensman, Sheffield and Tarling have also signed new deals this year, no doubt with a nice pay bump.
 
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I'm not sure they will, either. That said, the UK deserves a WT team. I'd be happy to see a mid-budget team that featured UK/Irish riders, much like Uno-X does. They have plenty of very good riders and if not for covid and Rodriguez's shocker of a Tour (I thought he might be fighting for 3rd) you wouldn't necessarily be pessimistic about the team's fuur

They might have to have a sit down with Pidcock after this year and ask him if he really wants to be a road rider. He has the talent but not the focus (understandable since he's so good at XC.
Pidcock climbing as well as he does with his mainly on XC MTB focussed prep makes me really think that it would be a shame if he didn't go all on on road cycling for at least 3 or 4 years.
 
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I'm not sure they will, either. That said, the UK deserves a WT team. I'd be happy to see a mid-budget team that featured UK/Irish riders, much like Uno-X does. They have plenty of very good riders and if not for covid and Rodriguez's shocker of a Tour (I thought he might be fighting for 3rd) you wouldn't necessarily be pessimistic about the team's fuur

They might have to have a sit down with Pidcock after this year and ask him if he really wants to be a road rider. He has the talent but not the focus (understandable since he's so good at XC.

I remember when Team Sky started to have success, I'm sure there were rumours about another British WT team backed by another large UK company........but it never happened.
If Ineos did pull the plug, who else is out there for sponsorship??
 
But wasn't this guy all about riding TdF for GC a year ago? Guy was visibly upset and thought he was better than C-Rod. That really aint possible with all these other disciplines he seems to enjoy...

Then again, I don't think he should be doing that as I don't think he's just quite good enough, but Ineos should feel kinda desperate at this point. I guess without the Olympic cycle the next years we should get to know more, ie. what he actually really wants to do with his career.
 
But wasn't this guy all about riding TdF for GC a year ago? Guy was visibly upset and thought he was better than C-Rod. That really aint possible with all these other disciplines he seems to enjoy...

Then again, I don't think he should be doing that as I don't think he's just quite good enough, but Ineos should feel kinda desperate at this point. I guess without the Olympic cycle the next years we should get to know more, ie. what he actually really wants to do with his career.
Yeah, but then one sees how well he was climbing in the 2023 Tour for Tour weeks, or this year's Tirreno-Adriatico and TdS, with a meme-prep that is mainly focussed on MTB and Ciclocross, so it's not hard to imagine that they could get a lot more out of him (as a stage racer) if he went all in on road cycling.
 
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The Tour was a disaster but they were also clearly affected by illness. Yes they seem to be paying over the odds for some of the riders but the Olympics is also a factor.

Ganna, Tarling, Pidcock and Sheffield's primary ambition has been that and they have been some of the more consistent performers.

Stage racing wise they seem far far off what they were but they do have the makings of a very strong classics team
 
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Some insights provided by Luke Plapp on the latest Stanley St. Social podcast:

Pidcock retired from the Tour not because of covid, but because he wanted to prepare for the Olympics. The team was apparently not in agreement about that [around 15:00 in the episode]. Plapp also suggests that Pidcock is likely to sign with Red Bull Bora (who are also seriously pursuing Evenepoel) [around 25:00 in the episode].

The way things are going, Ineos made a bad call putting so many eggs in Pidcock's basket. He's not a team player, has not delivered as a GC rider, and is not going to stick around. Adam Yates is probably less exciting, but he would have been better to actually deliver some results in the Tour.

Off Topic: Plapp is on the ground in Paris, and thinks Evenepoel looks very tired. For what it's worth.

[Edit: spelling]
 
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RJH

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Plapp is in the ground in Paris, and thinks Evenepoel looks very tired.
Doesn’t mean really that much. One good night of sleep, one nice meal, one good training, can change a lot, or everything.

Normally a week between Tour and OGs ITT is perfect.

Remco a big favourite, but Ganna and Tarling will be hard to beat.
 
Agree with those statements. Pidcock seems VERY egeocentric, and in road racing at least, thats not really justified given his palmarés. If you're gonna sit there and participate in all sorts of events during a season thats not really road racing, and your focusing this much on the Olympics as well, what are Ineos really paying for? Same problem with a rider like Ganna to some extent with the very big focus on the track.
 
Agree with those statements. Pidcock seems VERY egeocentric, and in road racing at least, thats not really justified given his palmarés. If you're gonna sit there and participate in all sorts of events during a season thats not really road racing, and your focusing this much on the Olympics as well, what are Ineos really paying for? Same problem with a rider like Ganna to some extent with the very big focus on the track.

His egocentricity might have cost Thomas the Tour win in 2022, because he wasn't there to help at Alpe d'Huez.
 
Some insights provided by Luke Plapp on the latest Stanley St. Social podcast:

Pidcock retired from the Tour not because of covid, but because he wanted to prepare for the Olympics. The team was apparently not in agreement about that [around 15:00 in the episode]. Plapp also suggests that Pidcock is likely to sign with Red Bull Bora (who are also seriously pursuing Evenepoel) [around 25:00 in the episode].

The way things are going, Ineos made a bad call putting so many eggs in Pidcock's basket. He's not a team player, has not delivered as a GC rider, and is not going to stick around. Adam Yates is probably less exciting, but he would have been better to actually deliver some results in the Tour.

Off Topic: Plapp is in the ground in Paris, and thinks Evenepoel looks very tired. For what it's worth.
Maybe, we will see. Anyway Covid or no covid I will be rooting for Pidders on Monday.
 
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Meh, I'm not a Pidcock fan but I think it's way too lazy and easy to just shift the blame on him. I think it's pretty clear Ineos signed him with an agreement to give him a lot of freedom for CX and XC. I mean he does have a lot of values there in terms of brand recognition and as an overall athlete he is a pretty big name. I think outside of the GTs this also has actually worked out pretty okay, he has won quite a bit in those disciplines and even in road he has gotten them Strade and Amstel, which are after Van Baarles Roubaix Ineos biggest classic wins in the last 5 years.
Now it's clear that the GC project has worked out pretty meh so far but in the end this is a management issue for me. Why take him to the Tour if it's clear that he has the Olympics as his calender goal? Why take G. Thomas to the Tour to nothing for 3 weeks and enjoy a goodby charity ride? They just seem to approach these GTs with no idea and flexibilty whatsoever.

I also disagree with Pidcock being egoistic based on the Netflix doc, I think (as so often) that was a very deliberately twisted perspective of what happened. They're trying hard to make it out that he doesn't want to work for Rodriguez when his actual main quotes are that he - as of now - would pull as the last guy but doesn't want to kill his GC pulling on the flat. This at a moment on the race where he is still top 10 and just 1 minute behind Rodriguez on GC. That's a total normal perspective. On Puy de Dome he was better than Rodriguez and then they make it out that he is betraying Rodriguez by going full out at the end of Grand Colombiere. Very very weird perspective.
 
Now it's clear that the GC project has worked out pretty meh so far but in the end this is a management issue for me. Why take him to the Tour if it's clear that he has the Olympics as his calender goal? Why take G. Thomas to the Tour to nothing for 3 weeks and enjoy a goodby charity ride? They just seem to approach these GTs with no idea and flexibilty whatsoever.
It's a bit puzzling why they brought Thomas to the Tour. Although if you actually look at the team roster, there were not that many viable alternatives available. Either riders had done the Giro or were full on preparing for the Olympics. Maybe someone like Brandon Rivera could have been okay, considering his form in Austria. But a healthy Thomas is probably still better, and garners a lot more media attention.
 
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Agree with those statements. Pidcock seems VERY egeocentric, and in road racing at least, thats not really justified given his palmarés. If you're gonna sit there and participate in all sorts of events during a season thats not really road racing, and your focusing this much on the Olympics as well, what are Ineos really paying for? Same problem with a rider like Ganna to some extent with the very big focus on the track.

So you expect MTB and Track riders to be paid peanuts? It's 2024, the big money shouldn't be just reserved for road riders. Both Ganna & Pidcock are world class in other disciplines - they're worth the money.
 
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So you expect MTB and Track riders to be paid peanuts? It's 2024, the big money shouldn't be just reserved for road riders. Both Ganna & Pidcock are world class in other disciplines - they're worth the money.
No, thats not what Im saying at all. What Im saying is that Ineos pays Pidcock to with road races, not do all kinds of different races on the side, Olympics, Worlds etc. etc. Its compeltely impossible to have a 'normal' road season for him, especially in an Olympic year, and Ineos is evidently falling behind. Lefevre has spoken about this at length many times, and I agree with him. And its the same with Ganna to some extent.
 
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Given how relatively poorly INEOS have performed (With the exception of G!) I suspect Jim will be taking a very "hands-on" approach to the way the team is run for a while.

Notably Steve Cummings has been shifted to Director of Racing in 2024, is this because he was seen as being too close to the riders at Grand Tours with some riders seeming to dictate what they will and will not do?

Given that INEOS has been and seems likely to continue as a Road Race team with a clear focus on the Grand Tours and some high-profile classics. I suspect that the freedom some team members have had to engage in (seemingly at will) in other cycling disciplines will likely be curtailed and those riders who disagree will leave.

INEOS have some riders who would have been great talents but are seemingly struggling to return to their previous form (No Fault of their own but Jim Ratcliff did not buy the team to allow it to become an old rider's home I think some will be let go.

With Luke Rowe going at the end of 2024 (Maybe to return as a DS?) and 2025 likely to be Geraint Thomas's last year leaving INEOS with a HUGE talent deficit they are likely running out of time to attract new talent and have the benefit of Luke and G still being able to pass on their knowledge.

They need to look for new talent that matches the trends sweeping the peloton and change their focus to ensure they do not put off great new talent joining because they feel that they will just stagnate as a super domestique.

2024/2025 are likely to be a challenging time for INEOS because have let things slide since Dave B moved on to Football.
 
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Some insights provided by Luke Plapp on the latest Stanley St. Social podcast:

Pidcock retired from the Tour not because of covid, but because he wanted to prepare for the Olympics. The team was apparently not in agreement about that [around 15:00 in the episode]. Plapp also suggests that Pidcock is likely to sign with Red Bull Bora (who are also seriously pursuing Evenepoel) [around 25:00 in the episode].

The way things are going, Ineos made a bad call putting so many eggs in Pidcock's basket. He's not a team player, has not delivered as a GC rider, and is not going to stick around. Adam Yates is probably less exciting, but he would have been better to actually deliver some results in the Tour.

Off Topic: Plapp is in the ground in Paris, and thinks Evenepoel looks very tired. For what it's worth.
think he was joking a bit there, ...and pidcock was still testing positive 6 days after he left. not saying he couldn't carry on like thomas. but why take the risk with a big goal a week after the tour.
 
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They might have to have a sit down with Pidcock after this year and ask him if he really wants to be a road rider. He has the talent but not the focus (understandable since he's so good at XC.
I don't mean to be cynical, but I don't think a sit down is needed. Pidcock's actions speak honestly. He is a very talented guy, but as a road rider he is only ever going to be a limited-purpose weapon. He can win some prestigious one-day races and take some high profile stages, but that's his ceiling. He has shown he isn't interested in supporting teammates. The question is whether his salary is justified on the team given his profile. If Red Bull values his non-road results highly, that may be a better fit for him.

To be clear, I don't begrudge Pidcock his choice, but I don't understand how it fits INEOS's project. Perhaps I'm misreading their goals, however. I also don't see how Pauline Ferrand-Prévot or Elia Viviani fit the squad. But I do think the current roster and the plans for next year are underwhelming. Forget the budget size, next year's roster would be underwhelming for even a low-budget team.