Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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May 12, 2010
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SundayRider said:
I've said it before - possibly in another thread - there is too many coincidences with Sky for them all to just be coincidences.
If they aren't a coincidence, then what are they? Suddenly everyone at Sky gets caught at the same time? They know their secret doping product that only they use can suddenly be detected (and knew that in the case of Froome before the Tirreno, but in case of Porte only found out during the race?).

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Even teams with teamwide doping programs still have injuries and illness.
 
Dec 13, 2012
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Lanark said:
If they aren't a coincidence, then what are they? Suddenly everyone at Sky gets caught at the same time? They know their secret doping product that only they use can suddenly be detected (and knew that in the case of Froome before the Tirreno, but in case of Porte only found out during the race?).

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Even teams with teamwide doping programs still have injuries and illness.
Wasn't just referring to these recent incidents, more all of the little things over the past couple of years - too many to mention.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Lanark said:
If they aren't a coincidence, then what are they? Suddenly everyone at Sky gets caught at the same time? They know their secret doping product that only they use can suddenly be detected (and knew that in the case of Froome before the Tirreno, but in case of Porte only found out during the race?).

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Even teams with teamwide doping programs still have injuries and illness.
sst.don't try to make too much sense to these people.
 
Sep 18, 2010
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There are so many different explanations of (a) what happened and (b) why Sky issued the strange statement they made.

Personally, I'm more interested in what happens next...

If WADA did these tests, what are they going to do?

Doesn't WADA have data on altitude training by people who were raised at altitude?

What are the UCI going to do? Are they seriously going to wait 8 weeks before taking action - even if that action is writing to the rider asking for an explanation?

On what basis will Sky either re-instate Henao or fire him?

If Sky fire Henao, is there a danger he'll out them? After all, if his success is down to doping, rather than marginal gains, doesn't that suggest the rest of the team has gone down the same route?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dalakhani said:
If Sky fire Henao, is there a danger he'll out them?
If they sack him, they'll send him home with a bag of money.
And Henao will then be looking for a new employer, which naturally forces him to keep quiet on any possible doping practices.
so no, normally he's not gonna rat out anybody, at least not in the very near future.

After all, if his success is down to doping, rather than marginal gains, doesn't that suggest the rest of the team has gone down the same route?
not necessarily.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Parrulo said:
It seems like according to some people on tweeter that the testing was an OOC test and that they only released that statement after being contacted by Gazzetta about the results.
in that case walsh got some splainin to do.
 
Jun 6, 2013
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Parrulo said:
It's interesting that Froome got his "back pain" and had to pull out of Tirreno at the same time this happens to Henao who was also supposed to race.

The language in the article is very inconclusive to me, but i am not a native english speaker so it might be me.
In some parts it looks like it was caught by tests made by the UCI and communicated to team Sky, and in other parts it looks like the opposite.

One thing is for sure, this is another problem for the super clean team Sky and this time it's a rider much higher up on the team hierarchy than JTL.
No it's not you - the message is very mixed.

On the CN news article it now says: "The values in question come from a test done in October when Henao was back in Colombia, as part of the UCI’s out-of-competition testing programme."

Two things strike me:
1. October is nearly 6 months ago. Why is this coming out now?
2. The above quote suggests it was a UCA/WADA test but from the same article the UCI are quoted as saying "This is something that has been monitored by the team".
 
May 19, 2010
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Sky seems to say that it was UCI who tested him, while UCI seems to say that it was Sky's monitoring program

In our latest monthly review, our experts had questions about Sergio’s out-of-competition control tests at altitude - tests introduced this winter by the anti-doping authorities.
http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_9221191,00.html

"This is something that has been monitored by the team,” they added.

"This is their own programme and that’s very important because that’s why we’re supportive of their programme and the approach to it and to suspend the rider. The monitoring and the programme is a matter for them.”
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sergio-henao-taken-off-sky-roster-due-to-test-anomalies

Probably UCI (or WADA or the Colombian Anti-doping agency) tested him OOC some time/times over the winter, and Sky had access to the results, maybe through ADAMS?

Does the teams have access to test results logged in ADAMS? The riders access to the results is discussed in WADAs Report of the Independent observers, Tour de France 2010

Recommendation 14:
The IO Team observed that the ABP data is made available on ADAMS within a short period after the analysis is completed. The aim of this is to allow the testing authority to react rapidly when an atypical and/or abnormal result is received. However, in referring to the Guidelines for Biologica Passport Programme there is no mention about the actual time to report this data.
Also the WADA Guidelines specify that data from the ABP should be available on ADAMS with access to both the anti-doping organisation and the rider concerned.
The IO Team’s understanding of the Guidelines is that data does not necessarily need to be available to both parties (ie. the anti-doping organisation and the rider) immediately after the analysis is completed. The data could be sent to the UCI first followed by the recommendation from the APMU which the UCI could then act upon and conducted a target test of the rider if there are suspicions. When sufficient time has passed and if needed, a follow up test conducted, the data could then be released on ADAMS, with access to the rider concerned. This would minimise the possibility of ridersbeing aware of possible follow up testing and/or then having the ability to manipulate their blood profiles after accessing such data and before a follow up sample can be collected.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Parrulo said:
One thing is for sure, this is another problem for the super clean team Sky and this time it's a rider much higher up on the team hierarchy than JTL.
What has this to do with JTL? His 'anomolies' come from pre-SKY days so you can't connect them with this at all.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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fraserhughes said:
...
Two things strike me:
1. October is nearly 6 months ago. Why is this coming out now?
2. The above quote suggests it was a UCA/WADA test but from the same article the UCI are quoted as saying "This is something that has been monitored by the team".
indeed, very odd.
 
Ripper said:
HFC! LMFAO!

That was a funny read, thanks for posting it. Given what G has shown, he has not really shown GT potential. Currently his biggest challenge will be to keep the rubber side down ... just saying ...
surely entirely consistent of sky...neither had wiggins and neither had froome...:)
 
JustinReynolds said:
What has this to do with JTL? His 'anomolies' come from pre-SKY days so you can't connect them with this at all.
well apart from training with them for a good part of the year and him riding the worlds with a large 'sky' emblazoned on his kit...then no..you can't connect them with JTL at all....:)
 
May 19, 2010
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Parrulo said:
It seems, according to some people on tweeter, that the test was an OOC test and that they only released that statement after being contacted by Gazzetta about the results.
The CN articel says so too (now). It was Heano's agent who blabbered to Gazzetta, then Sky released the statement about their upcomming medical research project in Colombia.

The announcement comes after Gazzetta dello Sport quoted Henao’s agent as saying that his rider was off the racing roster, due to anomalous values.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sergio-henao-taken-off-sky-roster-due-to-test-anomalies
 
gillan1969 said:
well apart from training with them for a good part of the year and him riding the worlds with a large 'sky' emblazoned on his kit...then no..you can't connect them with JTL at all....:)
Don't you think it would be stupid for them to juice him in Endura days ? What would be the point ? Higher salary because of his results ? Doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure JTL case has nothing to do with this one but it doesn't change the fact that all those quits (Porte, Froome) and now Henao case are highly suspicious.
 
fraserhughes said:
No it's not you - the message is very mixed.

On the CN news article it now says: "The values in question come from a test done in October when Henao was back in Colombia, as part of the UCI’s out-of-competition testing programme."

Two things strike me:
1. October is nearly 6 months ago. Why is this coming out now?
2. The above quote suggests it was a UCA/WADA test but from the same article the UCI are quoted as saying "This is something that has been monitored by the team".
From the look of it looks like its coming out because Henao's agent leaked it to Gazzetta Dello Sport - not sure why, but there you go. If you take at face value that Sky were taking action anyway, and had already told the UCI then it looks like they're worried about the result, were internally trying to get ahead of any problems by doing some testing, and now it's come out via Henao's agent they're going for transparency.

More interesting is the second point - it does appear that this is an OOC result that Sky's internal people have flagged up, but so far the UCI hasn't. The end of the CN article is extraordinary I think:

When asked if the UCI would study Henao’s blood passport or hand over the data to the team, the UCI said, “If they request, then why not? The press release says clearly they will do further research on their own. We don’t exclude it but it depends on them and whether they request additional help.”
So from my reading it looks like the team has seen an OOC test result, is sufficiently worried about it from a pr point of view to yank the rider from racing, commission more tests, and inform the governing body, but the governing body is content to let the Team do the investigation, and presumably let it know if it needs to take action!

Now, I'm not sure, but if I was in the governing body that would be a pretty big red flag to me to independently go back and scrutinise the same results in a bit more detail myself, rather than just wait for the team itself to do that. Very strange.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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So many odd things

“We are commissioning independent scientific research to better understand the effects of prolonged periods at altitude after returning from sea level, specifically on altitude natives,”
Really? The team spends months living at altitude in Tenerife and they don't know how altitude effects riders? Really?

The values in question come from a test done in October when Henao was back in Colombia, as part of the UCI’s out-of-competition testing programme.
Really? I am not sure what is more surprising, that a Columbian is tested OOC in Columbia or that someone would have wacky values in October......October? Usually the value that is questionable in the off season is a Hct that has dropped after being boosted all season.

"This is their own programme and that’s very important because that’s why we’re supportive of their programme and the approach to it and to suspend the rider. The monitoring and the programme is a matter for them.”
Really? This is a Sky issue only? Doesn't the UCI have this little program called the BioPassport?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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walsh to the rescue.
David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 2h

An obvious question: how many WorldTour teams would see a slightly suspicious bio result as a reason for withdrawing rider from competition?
 
Wallenquist said:
Don't you think it would be stupid for them to juice him in Endura days ? What would be the point ? Higher salary because of his results ? Doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure JTL case has nothing to do with this one but it doesn't change the fact that all those quits (Porte, Froome) and now Henao case are highly suspicious.
i'm not sure of the mechanics but it might suggest that JTL took the view that sky were relaxed about it or that he wouldn't get caught because he was going to sky....what is fact is that JTL and sky were entwined throughout his breakthrough endura break-out season...

and yes highly suspicious...
 
Jul 15, 2013
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Article states that the UCI were 'notified of the situation in the last few days but would not give a specific date'. But Brailsford says they notified the UCI and CADF 'after the Tour of Oman' which finished on 23 Feb (Henao finished 7th, 1"19' down on Froome).

So the UCI were notified since 24th Feb 2014. The test was an OOC test conducted in October 2013 at altitude in Colombia.

'this was their own programme' 'something that has been monitored by the team'

It doesn't appear from the article that the UCI have any issue with the values in the OOC test. The UCI say they will only study Henao's PP and/or hand the data over to the team 'if they request'.

If indeed there is nothing problematic in the OOC test in the UCI's eyes, would it be normal for Sky to have the results of that test? This was stated to be an OOC test, not a passport reading.
 
of course as insiders we all have applauded Cookson taking over the helm from the 'terrorist' that was McQuaid however to an outsider we now have a team whose main sponsor is enmeshed in Cooksons previous life...

jesus, cycling needs a clean break.....
 

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