Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Bernie's eyesore]

Clearly he and Porte won’t be chosen on the pub quiz team?

Sky riders don't go in pubs. Marginal gains.

 

[kenk09]

Just checking, you guys want people to speak out, right?

 

[Benotti69]

Just checking, you guys want people to speak out, right?

If someone is going to speak out, consistency is important. Cant call out one rider for something and ignore others for the same thing.

Anyone not expecting to get called on it is either low in intelligence or extremely naive.

 

[kenk09]

Kennaugh consistently calls people out. If cyclists are attacked every single time they speak out then they're not going to do it.

Kittel does it today and immediately he's bombarded with "black light" tweets.

A Sky guy does it immediately it's MICK ROGERS (who Kennaugh incidentally has raced a total of 2 days alongside), or Leinders!

We all know what reaction Bassons would have got.

It's just so utterly pointless.

 

[The Hitch]

If someone is going to speak out, consistency is important. Cant call out one rider for something and ignore others for the same thing.

Anyone not expecting to get called on it is either low in intelligence or extremely naive.

You actually responded

There was a good run of no one responding to this most obvious reincarnation of what was banned just a week or so ago.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Kennaugh consistently calls people out. If cyclists are attacked every single time they speak out then they're not going to do it.

Kittel does it today and immediately he's bombarded with "black light" tweets.

A Sky guy does it immediately it's MICK ROGERS (who Kennaugh incidentally has raced a total of 2 days alongside), or Leinders!

We all know what reaction Bassons would have got.

It's just so utterly pointless.

Pointess like no matter how low you think the sport can go, the UCI finds a new low?

Or, pointless like the long history of dopers proclaiming their cleanliness only to discover they were in fact up to their necks in doping?

Best case for Kennaugh: No matter how you look at it, a guy like Kennaugh gets no breaks because he is surrounded by circumstances that make no sense other than to suggest more corruption.

Would you rather nothing be said about a team hiring a full-on MD who was this close (put your fingers really, really close together) to winning a TdF with Rasmussen on his doping program to weigh athletes?

 

[kenk09]

You actually responded

There was a good run of no one responding to this most obvious reincarnation of what was banned just a week or so ago.

Yeah that's a "no".

 

[Benotti69]

You actually responded

There was a good run of no one responding to this most obvious reincarnation of what was banned just a week or so ago.

Sorry Hitch.........

 

[kenk09]

Pointess like no matter how low you think the sport can go, the UCI finds a new low?

Or, pointless like the long history of dopers proclaiming their cleanliness only to discover they were in fact up to their necks in doping?

Would you rather nothing be said?

I'd rather Kennaugh and Kittel do exactly what they did. I'd hope they could do more, but what can they do?

The notion that dopers have done something in the past so clean riders shouldn't do the same seems very backwards to me.

What I would rather is cycling fans be more supportive of riders when they do speak out.

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah that's a "no".

You have a more obvious version on the side?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Kennaugh consistently calls people out. If cyclists are attacked every single time they speak out then they're not going to do it.

Kittel does it today and immediately he's bombarded with "black light" tweets.

A Sky guy does it immediately it's MICK ROGERS (who Kennaugh incidentally has raced a total of 2 days alongside), or Leinders!

We all know what reaction Bassons would have got.

It's just so utterly pointless.

As many as 2 ?
I actually would have bet that they were in different squads entirely. PK was very much in the development team when Rogers was at Sky. (plus the obvious track time 'out' for the Olympics)

Mind if I ask which races ?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'd rather Kennaugh and Kittel do exactly what they did. I'd hope they could do more, but what can they do?.

Talk to their NADO?

The notion that dopers have done something in the past so clean riders shouldn't do the same seems very backwards to me.

But, circumstances are not changing. Nothing is changing. UCI and cyclists keep talking and strange circumstances keep appearing. You want me to just accept a team hires an MD to record body weights????

Let's be fair, 2014 GT power analysis shows some reasonably natural performances once you take the normal suspects out of the picture. (contador, froome, nibali) This sudden appearance of clean-ish is as unexplainable as the last 20-something years of elite cycling too.

 

[kenk09]

As many as 2 ?
I actually would have bet that they were in different squads entirely. PK was very much in the development team when Rogers was at Sky. (plus the obvious track time 'out' for the Olympics)

Mind if I ask which races ?

Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen in 2012 is the only one I found. Possible I missed one somewhere along the way too.

 

[TailWindHome]

Oops wrong thread

 

[kenk09]

Talk to their NADO?



But, circumstances are not changing. Nothing is changing. UCI and cyclists keep talking and strange circumstances keep appearing. You want me to just accept a team hires an MD to record body weights????

Let's be fair, 2014 GT power analysis shows some reasonably natural performances once you take the normal suspects out of the picture. (contador, froome, nibali) This sudden appearance of clean-ish is as unexplainable as the last 20-something years of elite cycling too.

I don't want you to accept anything, I simply believe who should be helping to create an atmosphere in which athletes are comfortable speaking out.

Let's just say for a second that Kennaugh is a clean rider, what is the benefit of him being ridiculed on twitter, and of people mocking his intelligence on this forum when he speaks out?

This petty points-scoring of "ah but what about when your teammate said that thing on July 9th 2012" is really, really not helping.

If you were a cyclist would you speak out?

 

[The Hitch]

Weird that people would address the point that Rogers was on Kennaughs team but ignore the point that Lienders was on the team, making Kennaugh come off as a massive hypocrite.

Its almost like they have no interest in the overall discussion of whether Sky dope/ are hypocrites, and just want to poke holes in a few fringe arguments.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...If you were a cyclist would you speak out?

Not like Kennaugh. I'd post biometric values. All of them. Not much to question after that unless I were doping.

The UCI would not like that though... My federation (USAC) would hate it too. Let's face it, I wouldn't have results to warrant a WT contract, so buh-bye DirtyWorks!

Me and "Phil the Thrill' would tear up the domestic races that no one watches making minimum wage....

 

[kenk09]

Not like Kennaugh. I'd post biometric values. All of them. Not much to question after that unless I were doping.

The UCI would not like that though... My federation (USAC) would hate it too. Let's face it, I wouldn't have results to warrant a WT contract, so buh-bye DirtyWorks!

Me and "Phil the Thrill' would tear up the domestic races that no one watches making minimum wage....

Genuinely, you don't think someone would find something to question in them regardless? You know as well as I do the amount of cycling fans who are suddenly experts in a billion different fields.

 

[The Hitch]

Speaking of the word billion, the last time I saw an account try to cram a billion different troll talking points, into a few hours, like this, it was when they feared the account did not have long to go before being banned and tried to do fit as much trolling as possible into such a short time space.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Weird that people would address the point that Rogers was on Kennaughs team but ignore the point that Lienders was on the team, making Kennaugh come off as a massive hypocrite.

Its almost like they have no interest in the overall discussion of whether Sky dope/ are hypocrites, and just want to poke holes in a few fringe arguments.

Now, your homework Hitch is to go through PK's races on the Sky site and find how many days he was on a team with Lienders at the same race.

I think it will not be many. (Though shame on PK for not saying that he an Lienders were mainly at separate races)

 

[DirtyWorks]

This petty points-scoring of "ah but what about when your teammate said that thing on July 9th 2012" is really, really not helping.

I've reconsidered and see your point. But, I'm afraid the petty points-scoring is human nature.

 

[The Hitch]

Now, your homework Hitch is to go through PK's races on the Sky site and find how many days he was on a team with Lienders at the same race.

I think it will not be many. (Though shame on PK for not saying that he an Lienders were mainly at separate races)

Well that makes it worse then doesn't it?

If Lienders was never even in any of the races Kennaugh was in how can he know all Lienders did was take riders weight?

But then sarcastically mock other riders when they say all Ferrari did was train them.

So he wasn't there with Lienders, but gives all his team a pass for working with him, but won't give it to his competitors (he wasn't there either) when they say the exact same thing?

Sounds like ******bag hypocricy to me.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Now, your homework Hitch is to go through PK's races on the Sky site and find how many days he was on a team with Lienders at the same race.

I think it will not be many. (Though shame on PK for not saying that he an Lienders were mainly at separate races)

Ugh. If Lienders is running doping programs, he doesn't need to be at races. That would be the very, very, very last place he would need to meet face to face.

He doesn't even need to be seen with the riders. Phone calls and reviewing biometric/performance data is all that is required. Send a schedule back with whatever doping requirements on a calendar. That is not necessarily even a full time job.

 

[TailWindHome]

Well that makes it worse then doesn't it?

If Lienders was never even in any of the races Kennaugh was in how can he know all Lienders did was take riders weight?

But then sarcastically mock other riders when they say all Ferrari did was train them.

So he wasn't there with Lienders, but gives all his team a pass for working with him, but won't give it to his competitors (he wasn't there either) when they say the exact same thing?

Sounds like ******bag hypocricy to me.

Alternatively he knows he didn't dope, but believes Astana did so voices his opinion

 

[The Hitch]

Alternatively he knows he didn't dope, but believes Astana did so voices his opinion

It doesn't matter if he "knows he is clean" becuase its about his teammates. He rides with the likes of Froome and Wiggins who frashed all Astana's riders while working with Lienders.

But he gives them a pass but then with no explanation attacks Astana for doing the exact same thing.

Why are only Sky riders allowed to use a doping doctor but not Astana ones, any explanation?

Its the exact same as saying "I know he is doping because he climbs real fast" for one rider, and then saying "Climbing fast means nothing" when your rider does it.