Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

It was in bad taste to suggest Sky too, but at least that wasn't down to you.

I've made worse jokes about the conspiracy theorists round here...

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Sky

Now the children's doping hero has got his first win this thread should be a lot quieter for a while.

First win this season or first since his last win? (Do wins in February really count?)

 

[rick james]

Re: Sky

Now the children's doping hero has got his first win this thread should be a lot quieter for a while.

First win this season or first since his last win? (Do wins in February really count?)

Do they only count in this forum if its sky that win?

 

[Jakub]

Re: Sky

Now the children's doping hero has got his first win this thread should be a lot quieter for a while.

You just ensured it won't be quiet.

yes, it was nice to see Dylan Thomas win Algarve, I am sure that all children are happy. Just some older blocks who also rememeber the famous Postal era haven't enjoyed it so much.

I am actually wondering what's Landa's and Kwiat's season gonna be like. Usually pre-sky donkeys are solid - for example Porte, pre-sky tragic donkeys are extremely solid: Froome, track riders are GCs - Wiggins, but who was top before is suffering: Cavendish. It's not enough examples though and also I believe that Landa had simply a magic season in 2015, that's all. But still if they both fail, I would really like to hear a scientific explanation

Yes it's quite interesting that, isn't it? What was the logic behind Sky choosing such poor quality riders to bump up to solid, outstanding winners when they could obviously have afforded much better raw material with which to work? Presumably these required a much higher quantity of whatever is being used than would a more talented rider making a smaller increase in performance. Seems strange to have taken the extra risk of detection in using total nobodies who look more suspicious than the more obvious talented riders they could have chosen.

yes, exactly. but if the alreadygood riders all fail, it will be even more interessant. hopefully the sky version of "The Program" film sometime in 20 years will be much better made, looking forward to what we get to know.

 

[harryh]

Re: Sky

Seems strange to have taken the extra risk of detection in using total nobodies who look more suspicious than the more obvious talented riders they could have chosen.

Sky are using secret clairvoyants ant tarot readers to see who will be a super responder to their magic pill.

 

[ebandit]

team sky not the only ones whom can't see any point to MPCC......

Mark L

 

[MartinGT]

I never knew the super nutritionist Nigel from Sky has gone to Cannondale!

 

[sniper]

Re:

I never knew the super nutritionist Nigel from Sky has gone to Cannondale!

good spot.

Cannondale about to go full genius?
There was a nice Garmin/wiggins/mitchell connection in the 2008/9 season.

 

[Carstenbf]

Damn, I knew I should've picked up Rolland for my fantasy team.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I never knew the super nutritionist Nigel from Sky has gone to Cannondale!

good spot.

Cannondale about to go full genius?
There was a nice Garmin/wiggins/mitchell connection in the 2008/9 season.

Allen Lim must have been charging too much for his rice cakes

 

[.Froomestrong.]

Re: Sky

This team is a total farce. In a GCN video, G. Thomas says that he hasnt done ANY aero/positioning work since...
2007.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiwvmDcKycI

Marginal gains apparently dont extend to the low hanging fruit like positioning. Amazing.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Sky

This team is a total farce. In a GCN video, G. Thomas says that he hasnt done ANY aero/positioning work since...
2007.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiwvmDcKycI

Marginal gains apparently dont extend to the low hanging fruit like positioning. Amazing.

It doesn't seem to have done him any harm. More precisely he says he has not been in a wind tunnel since 2007. Perhaps he didn't need to do so!

2012 Olympic Games - gold in Team pursuit
2012 World Track Championships 1st (rainbow jersey) Team pursuit

Must have an awful position!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

This team is a total farce. In a GCN video, G. Thomas says that he hasnt done ANY aero/positioning work since...
2007.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiwvmDcKycI

Marginal gains apparently dont extend to the low hanging fruit like positioning. Amazing.

It doesn't seem to have done him any harm. More precisely he says he has not been in a wind tunnel since 2007. Perhaps he didn't need to do so!

2012 Olympic Games - gold in Team pursuit
2012 World Track Championships 1st (rainbow jersey) Team pursuit

Must have an awful position!

Ignore the sky mantra where there wins are down to not leaving any stone unturned in their pursuit to gather a marginal gain from everything.............

So imagine how much he would've won had he done more for his positioning, but obviously the doping takes care of it.

 

[sniper]

Re: Sky

...
It doesn't seem to have done him any harm. More precisely he says he has not been in a wind tunnel since 2007. Perhaps he didn't need to do so!

and Leinders really was hired to cure saddle sore.
you should talk to Jan Ulrich if you get the chance. He can help you do the math.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Sky

...
It doesn't seem to have done him any harm. More precisely he says he has not been in a wind tunnel since 2007. Perhaps he didn't need to do so!

and Leinders really was hired to cure saddle sore.
you should talk to Jan Ulrich if you get the chance. He can help you do the math.

Sorry but I don't accept Leinders was doping the British Olympic team even if you do and the point related to the amazing fact that G had not been in a wind tunnel since 2007 but was nevertheless aero enough to ride a winning team pursuit at the Olympics and World Champs.

Who knows why oldcrank's posts have been removed? Can nobody stomach an alternative view?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

...
It doesn't seem to have done him any harm. More precisely he says he has not been in a wind tunnel since 2007. Perhaps he didn't need to do so!

and Leinders really was hired to cure saddle sore.
you should talk to Jan Ulrich if you get the chance. He can help you do the math.

Sorry but I don't accept Leinders was doping the British Olympic team even if you do and the point related to the amazing fact that G had not been in a wind tunnel since 2007 but was nevertheless aero enough to ride a winning team pursuit at the Olympics and World Champs.

Who knows why oldcrank's posts have been removed? Can nobody stomach an alternative view?

Oldcrank posts are irrelevant to the clinic.....my friend.

As for an alternative view, Sky give the PR view and people post here taking it apart very easily giving a more realistic view.

The doping beats aerodynamics every time. Ask Mario Cipollini. Ask Big Mig. Plenty of examples of power beating aero therefore no need for a wind tunnel.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Sky

...
It doesn't seem to have done him any harm. More precisely he says he has not been in a wind tunnel since 2007. Perhaps he didn't need to do so!

and Leinders really was hired to cure saddle sore.
you should talk to Jan Ulrich if you get the chance. He can help you do the math.

Sorry but I don't accept Leinders was doping the British Olympic team even if you do and the point related to the amazing fact that G had not been in a wind tunnel since 2007 but was nevertheless aero enough to ride a winning team pursuit at the Olympics and World Champs.

Who knows why oldcrank's posts have been removed? Can nobody stomach an alternative view?

Oldcrank posts are irrelevant to the clinic.....my friend.

As for an alternative view, Sky give the PR view and people post here taking it apart very easily giving a more realistic view.

The doping beats aerodynamics every time. Ask Mario Cipollini. Ask Big Mig. Plenty of examples of power beating aero therefore no need for a wind tunnel.

Surprisigly neither Big Mig or Mario Cipollini are mates of mine so I won't be asking them anything.

I don't recollect Cipollini's record on the track or particular skills in time trials, but if he did shine it was before modern track and time trial technology, so I don't see the relevance. Big Mig was certainly into aero in his day. In his hour record he could not have done without a good position on the bike.

My response was to a suggestion that Team Sky are a joke because they don't take advantage of all marginal gains (presumably preferring others and I know the theory about them!) because G had not paid attention to his position since 2007 (which is not what he said anyway and is contrary to the whole point of the video in question).

oldcrank clearly agreed with me so far as G is concerned. There were two riders from other teams in the Olympics team in question and there's nothing to suggest Leinders had anything to do with them, whatever his influence on Sky at that time. Nevertheless this team thrashed the Aussies and everyone else in the Olympics. You can't explain away everything by doping.

I have unfashionable views (Clinic-wise) about some things, but do you just want to spend your time agreeing with other posters, or are you prepared to see other opinions? I did not think even the Clinic existed as an echo chamber for identical views.

Whatever you say, nobody can win on the track in both these events (with the world record that oldcrank mentioned) without a good aero position, a matter I regard as obvious fact.

 

[harryh]

Re: Sky

The doping beats aerodynamics every time. Ask Mario Cipollini. Ask Big Mig. Plenty of examples of power beating aero therefore no need for a wind tunnel.

Lol. Look how good Indurain looks. So smooth, so aerodynamic. Like a cyclist from another decade compared to Lemond etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANGbb1Yz8Hw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNbWILZkcbg

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

The doping beats aerodynamics every time. Ask Mario Cipollini. Ask Big Mig. Plenty of examples of power beating aero therefore no need for a wind tunnel.

Lol. Look how good Indurain looks. So smooth, so aerodynamic. Like a cyclist from another decade compared to Lemond etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANGbb1Yz8Hw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNbWILZkcbg

Yes, but his size is big. Mig 'powered' his way through those TTs with a lot of PED help.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Sky

...
It doesn't seem to have done him any harm. More precisely he says he has not been in a wind tunnel since 2007. Perhaps he didn't need to do so!

and Leinders really was hired to cure saddle sore.
you should talk to Jan Ulrich if you get the chance. He can help you do the math.

Sorry but I don't accept Leinders was doping the British Olympic team even if you do and the point related to the amazing fact that G had not been in a wind tunnel since 2007 but was nevertheless aero enough to ride a winning team pursuit at the Olympics and World Champs.

Who knows why oldcrank's posts have been removed? Can nobody stomach an alternative view?

Oldcrank posts are irrelevant to the clinic.....my friend.

As for an alternative view, Sky give the PR view and people post here taking it apart very easily giving a more realistic view.

The doping beats aerodynamics every time. Ask Mario Cipollini. Ask Big Mig. Plenty of examples of power beating aero therefore no need for a wind tunnel.

Surprisigly neither Big Mig or Mario Cipollini are mates of mine so I won't be asking them anything.

I don't recollect Cipollini's record on the track or particular skills in time trials, but if he did shine it was before modern track and time trial technology, so I don't see the relevance. Big Mig was certainly into aero in his day. In his hour record he could not have done without a good position on the bike.

My response was to a suggestion that Team Sky are a joke because they don't take advantage of all marginal gains (presumably preferring others and I know the theory about them!) because G had not paid attention to his position since 2007 (which is not what he said anyway and is contrary to the whole point of the video in question).

oldcrank clearly agreed with me so far as G is concerned. There were two riders from other teams in the Olympics team in question and there's nothing to suggest Leinders had anything to do with them, whatever his influence on Sky at that time. Nevertheless this team thrashed the Aussies and everyone else in the Olympics. You can't explain away everything by doping.

I have unfashionable views (Clinic-wise) about some things, but do you just want to spend your time agreeing with other posters, or are you prepared to see other opinions? I did not think even the Clinic existed as an echo chamber for identical views.

Whatever you say, nobody can win on the track in both these events (with the world record that oldcrank mentioned) without a good aero position, a matter I regard as obvious fact.

 

[sniper]

Re: Sky

...
Who knows why oldcrank's posts have been removed?

if you need me to explain "off topic trolling" to you, I'll be happy to.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Sky

...
Who knows why oldcrank's posts have been removed?

if you need me to explain "off topic trolling" to you, I'll be happy to.

You are so kind. No thanks. I don't want to labour the point, but my own post was as much on topic as many and oldcrank thought fit to support it with more proof that the particular sniping against Sky and Thomas in particular was unwarranted on this occasion. Getting his post removed was the pits, but I have no more to say about it.

 

[sniper]

Re: Sky

...
Who knows why oldcrank's posts have been removed?

if you need me to explain "off topic trolling" to you, I'll be happy to.

You are so kind. No thanks. I don't want to labour the point, but my own post was as much on topic as many and oldcrank thought fit to support it with more proof that the particular sniping against Sky and Thomas in particular was unwarranted on this occasion. Getting his post removed was the pits, but I have no more to say about it.

i think the mods are capable of making up their own minds.
nobody 'got' nothing removed.
Most of oldcrank's posts are still up, even if 90% is off topic.
I don't think he ever got banned either, even though posters get banned on a regular basis for posting off topic.
So no, he's not unfairly treated.

What, in your view, is responsible for Sky/BC's success, if not the marginal gains?
If marginal gains, then why no windtunnel?
If not the marginal gains, then why do they pretend it's the marginal gains?
These are largely rethorical questions, Wrinkly, but surprise me if you have an alternative answer.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Sky

...
Who knows why oldcrank's posts have been removed?

if you need me to explain "off topic trolling" to you, I'll be happy to.

You are so kind. No thanks. I don't want to labour the point, but my own post was as much on topic as many and oldcrank thought fit to support it with more proof that the particular sniping against Sky and Thomas in particular was unwarranted on this occasion. Getting his post removed was the pits, but I have no more to say about it.

i think the mods are capable of making up their own minds.
nobody 'got' nothing removed.
Most of oldcrank's posts are still up, even if 90% is off topic.


If marginal gains, then why no windtunnel?
If not the marginal gains, then why do they pretend it's the marginal gains?

That's right, I expect marginal gains have much to do with it and they include work on riding position. That's what the video this started with was all about. The point being made about it was spurious. He's been in a wind tunnel and he's been a winner. He's also been working on his position as shown in the video. I looked at the video. it did not support the point being made (in the terms it was made), to which I responded.

 

[Benotti69]

6.  Innovation like no other. Brailsford had talked of “going right to the line” of what was legal – but had they crossed it?

Seems Wiggins confirmed it in his quote about Sharapova.

Wiggins:

"we get told "stop taking that, by the doctor"

So Sky 'dope' and as long as it is not on a list it is legal, it would appear.