Re: Sky
I'll share this BBC article in other appropriate threads as well:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/37371057
I'll share this BBC article in other appropriate threads as well:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/37371057
....Wiggins, Brailsford and Sky, so French, so chique, such liars..... :lol:Antoine VAYER @festinaboy Sep 15
TUE and CORTISONE was/is a typically French problem in cycling for so much long time.
You are right on everything you said. This just opens the eyes on the naïve people. Not on the people that already knows. Or at least exposes them a little.The Hitch said:If you take 2008 wiggins and 2010 Froome and give them the aid of a couple of "murky" "grey area" drugs, they might finish top 100 and top 50 in a gt respectively.TheSpud said:Indeed not, but these TUEs do show that they were using murky / grey areas in my view and as DFA said Leinders knowledge of what was possible 'within the rules' (TUEs etc) would have been invaluable. It would be interesting to know what else was being combined with the cortico - Xenon and Meldonium perhaps.The Hitch said:Absolutely no one who said Sky were doping 1 week ago, is now going to believe, after wiggins was just caught lying through his teeth, that actually he must have been clean all alongTheSpud said:So my hunch that Leinders was hired as the 'grey areas' doc may not be that far off the mark, and if true Sky can still claim to be 'clean' within the current rules.The Hegelian said:What does Mr Fancy Bears tell us about Sky: in the form of tangible evidence?
That Wiggins' 2012 TDF was predicated on him maintaining power at a body weight that could only be maintained with corticosteroids. Officially legit because of the TUE, but this is in no way consistent with their marginal gains narrative. It is explicitly using drugs and the system of rules to maximize power-weight ratio, which they fully understand to be a necessary condition for winning the tour.
By inference, it follows that the template laid down in 2012 was likely followed in subsequent tours.
That is, independent of speculation about using illegal methods - which we can simply bracket here - we have tangible positive evidence that they are willing to utilise chemical methods to maximise power-weight ratios, and that this is a substantive and manifest gain which is unequivocally about chemical methods.
Conclusion: all of this is bleeding obvious to any one who looks, but those who parrot the marginal gains bullocks must contend with this evidence to the contrary.![]()
You need a lot more powerful **** to have them dominate the TDF
Of course they can still claim this, within the sphere of public knowledge/discourse and it has a certain kind of legalistic validity.TheSpud said:So my hunch that Leinders was hired as the 'grey areas' doc may not be that far off the mark, and if true Sky can still claim to be 'clean' within the current rules.The Hegelian said:What does Mr Fancy Bears tell us about Sky: in the form of tangible evidence?
That Wiggins' 2012 TDF was predicated on him maintaining power at a body weight that could only be maintained with corticosteroids. Officially legit because of the TUE, but this is in no way consistent with their marginal gains narrative. It is explicitly using drugs and the system of rules to maximize power-weight ratio, which they fully understand to be a necessary condition for winning the tour.
By inference, it follows that the template laid down in 2012 was likely followed in subsequent tours.
That is, independent of speculation about using illegal methods - which we can simply bracket here - we have tangible positive evidence that they are willing to utilise chemical methods to maximise power-weight ratios, and that this is a substantive and manifest gain which is unequivocally about chemical methods.
Conclusion: all of this is bleeding obvious to any one who looks, but those who parrot the marginal gains bullocks must contend with this evidence to the contrary.
Good question. My take is that froome knew he was an asthmatic. He knew. But not fully.MmeDesgrange said:A genuine question - and do please direct me to where it has been answered if previously asked - but if Froome has used an inhaler since he was a teenager why does he not have pre-2009 TUEs for salbutamol?
Some detection in a sample might not be a positive straight away. Have too much, and a TUE is needed. It's a good idea not to generalize this too much as similar drugs are treated differently. Some have low positive thresholds, others don't, yet both could be similar.MmeDesgrange said:A genuine question - and do please direct me to where it has been answered if previously asked - but if Froome has used an inhaler since he was a teenager why does he not have pre-2009 TUEs for salbutamol?
is this a joke, do you think anybody in the history of the world cares what a bunch of people on the internet think?sniper said:yap.thehog said:I'm impressed that the British media is starting to ask the right type of questions, they are starting to get it. Wiggins and Sky certainly have got themselves into a bind. I guess their best move is silence and hope this goes away, perhaps Walsh will write a puff piece on Sunday to calm the waters.
There seems to be a growing realization that British sports press, personified by David Walsh, have become the laughing stock of social media. And luckily not every british journo will just sit back and watch it happen.
I'm not sure if too many british sports journos will still want to sit next to David.
You seem upset.Singer01 said:is this a joke, do you think anybody in the history of the world cares what a bunch of people on the internet think?sniper said:yap.thehog said:I'm impressed that the British media is starting to ask the right type of questions, they are starting to get it. Wiggins and Sky certainly have got themselves into a bind. I guess their best move is silence and hope this goes away, perhaps Walsh will write a puff piece on Sunday to calm the waters.
There seems to be a growing realization that British sports press, personified by David Walsh, have become the laughing stock of social media. And luckily not every british journo will just sit back and watch it happen.
I'm not sure if too many british sports journos will still want to sit next to David.
glorious day for cyclingMiburo said:Glorious day for cycling, let's see how they respond to this one.
But is there now anyone left here that believes sky didn't do anything or are they all gone?
You've seen the movie Surrogates? That's Team Sky! Their entire team has been replaced by robots or too pass a blood test, a cybernetic organism. When they're racing the real Team Sky riders are back in some dark room at British Cycling HQ remote controlling their better surrogates.buckle said:Can anyone explain the success of Sky post-Leinders? I do wonder wonder wherher there is more to Leunders than just doping?
Why would DB, who was doping the team prior to 2010 and after Leinder's dismissal, run such a reputational risk in the first place? What occurred in the summer of 2010 to prompt him to effectively press the panic button?Savant12 said:You've seen the movie Surrogates? That's Team Sky! Their entire team has been replaced by robots or too pass a blood test, a cybernetic organism. When they're racing the real Team Sky riders are back in some dark room at British Cycling HQ remote controlling their better surrogates.buckle said:Can anyone explain the success of Sky post-Leinders? I do wonder wonder wherher there is more to Leinders than just doping?
The next anti-doping step is to X-ray the riders.
I have no idea what you think your comment has to do with my post.The Hitch said:You seem upset.Singer01 said:is this a joke, do you think anybody in the history of the world cares what a bunch of people on the internet think?sniper said:yap.thehog said:I'm impressed that the British media is starting to ask the right type of questions, they are starting to get it. Wiggins and Sky certainly have got themselves into a bind. I guess their best move is silence and hope this goes away, perhaps Walsh will write a puff piece on Sunday to calm the waters.
There seems to be a growing realization that British sports press, personified by David Walsh, have become the laughing stock of social media. And luckily not every british journo will just sit back and watch it happen.
I'm not sure if too many british sports journos will still want to sit next to David.
Maybe put in your DVD of Wiggins tdf win, and watch it, pretending everything is ok. That might make you feel better.
Me is prob better wording, good point matepastronef said:glorious day for cyclingMiburo said:Glorious day for cycling, let's see how they respond to this one.
But is there now anyone left here that believes sky didn't do anything or are they all gone?
what is "cycling" ?
thanks
sorry Deviant, but you are either obuscating and failing or missing some grey matter.deviant said:So Sky used TUE certs.....wow, that's quite a smoking gun, I mean it's practicality blood bags, EPO vials and bags of steroids (sarcasm mode off).....seriously guys, there is a world of difference from a medical exemption for inhalers and cortisone and the big nasties like Growth Hormone, testosterone, insulin, GW501516 and Aicar etc.
If this was Astana or Tinkoff it'd be a non story but the clinic lives for a good Sky bashing.
I think you do. Plenty care. Did you miss the hashtag fiasco for SkyTV and Mo Farah #askmo? That backfired.Singer01 said:I have no idea what you think your comment has to do with my post.The Hitch said:You seem upset.Singer01 said:is this a joke, do you think anybody in the history of the world cares what a bunch of people on the internet think?sniper said:yap.thehog said:I'm impressed that the British media is starting to ask the right type of questions, they are starting to get it. Wiggins and Sky certainly have got themselves into a bind. I guess their best move is silence and hope this goes away, perhaps Walsh will write a puff piece on Sunday to calm the waters.
There seems to be a growing realization that British sports press, personified by David Walsh, have become the laughing stock of social media. And luckily not every british journo will just sit back and watch it happen.
I'm not sure if too many british sports journos will still want to sit next to David.
Maybe put in your DVD of Wiggins tdf win, and watch it, pretending everything is ok. That might make you feel better.
From what I have seen, most athletes do. And sponsors as well. Image is very important.Singer01 said:is this a joke, do you think anybody in the history of the world cares what a bunch of people on the internet think?sniper said:yap.thehog said:I'm impressed that the British media is starting to ask the right type of questions, they are starting to get it. Wiggins and Sky certainly have got themselves into a bind. I guess their best move is silence and hope this goes away, perhaps Walsh will write a puff piece on Sunday to calm the waters.
There seems to be a growing realization that British sports press, personified by David Walsh, have become the laughing stock of social media. And luckily not every british journo will just sit back and watch it happen.
I'm not sure if too many british sports journos will still want to sit next to David.
You are right. Just like Hitch said, this is small potatoes really.deviant said:So Sky used TUE certs.....wow, that's quite a smoking gun, I mean it's practicality blood bags, EPO vials and bags of steroids (sarcasm mode off).....seriously guys, there is a world of difference from a medical exemption for inhalers and cortisone and the big nasties like Growth Hormone, testosterone, insulin, GW501516 and Aicar etc.
If this was Astana or Tinkoff it'd be a non story but the clinic lives for a good Sky bashing.
in the meantime... as SkyTUE-gate pops out, Pistolero responds (source CN):Benotti69 said:sorry Deviant, but you are either obuscating and failing or missing some grey matter.deviant said:So Sky used TUE certs.....wow, that's quite a smoking gun, I mean it's practicality blood bags, EPO vials and bags of steroids (sarcasm mode off).....seriously guys, there is a world of difference from a medical exemption for inhalers and cortisone and the big nasties like Growth Hormone, testosterone, insulin, GW501516 and Aicar etc.
If this was Astana or Tinkoff it'd be a non story but the clinic lives for a good Sky bashing.
Sky have been caught lying about how they achieved their GT success with 1 former Gruppetto stalwart. I think this is massive. Remember Sky were the team claiming they were squeaky clean! Remember Sky claimed it has a ZTP policy and were going to do everything clean and transparent.
Well they have been caught lying and if you are going to lie about TUEs what else are they lying about, EPO, AICAR, HGH, motors, etc etc..
So dont try to compare Sky with Astana or Tinkoff as chalk and cheese springs to mind.
Very true, it's common sense that Wiggins was doping. Track rider come Grand Tour was too absurd even for cycling. TUE-gate just confirms what we all knew and that Brailsford/Sky have being doing a lot of lying over the past 6 years. But it's not all their fault, there are a lot of stupid journalists and fans out there who have propagated the margin gains BS and refused to question basic logic.Benotti69 said:sorry Deviant, but you are either obuscating and failing or missing some grey matter.deviant said:So Sky used TUE certs.....wow, that's quite a smoking gun, I mean it's practicality blood bags, EPO vials and bags of steroids (sarcasm mode off).....seriously guys, there is a world of difference from a medical exemption for inhalers and cortisone and the big nasties like Growth Hormone, testosterone, insulin, GW501516 and Aicar etc.
If this was Astana or Tinkoff it'd be a non story but the clinic lives for a good Sky bashing.
Sky have been caught lying about how they achieved their GT success with 1 former Gruppetto stalwart. I think this is massive. Remember Sky were the team claiming they were squeaky clean! Remember Sky claimed it has a ZTP policy and were going to do everything clean and transparent.
Well they have been caught lying and if you are going to lie about TUEs what else are they lying about, EPO, AICAR, HGH, motors, etc etc..
So dont try to compare Sky with Astana or Tinkoff as chalk and cheese springs to mind.
Image is everything. Look at Lochte. Was he found cheating and his medals stripped? No. He simply destroyed his image and sponsors dropped him immediately. To be fair, that made mainstream news, not some backwater blog. (He'd always struck me as a bit of a ***, but that might just be me.)Escarabajo said:From what I have seen, most athletes do. And sponsors as well. Image is very important.Singer01 said:is this a joke, do you think anybody in the history of the world cares what a bunch of people on the internet think?sniper said:yap.thehog said:I'm impressed that the British media is starting to ask the right type of questions, they are starting to get it. Wiggins and Sky certainly have got themselves into a bind. I guess their best move is silence and hope this goes away, perhaps Walsh will write a puff piece on Sunday to calm the waters.
There seems to be a growing realization that British sports press, personified by David Walsh, have become the laughing stock of social media. And luckily not every british journo will just sit back and watch it happen.
I'm not sure if too many british sports journos will still want to sit next to David.
While no doubt Lochte is a doper, he committed a crime in Brazil. Destroying private property doesn't go down well with normal people.winkybiker said:Image is everything. Look at Lochte. Was he found cheating and his medals stripped? No. He simply destroyed his image and sponsors dropped him immediately. To be fair, that made mainstream news, not some backwater blog. (He'd always struck me as a bit of a ****, but that might just be me.)Escarabajo said:From what I have seen, most athletes do. And sponsors as well. Image is very important.Singer01 said:is this a joke, do you think anybody in the history of the world cares what a bunch of people on the internet think?sniper said:yap.thehog said:I'm impressed that the British media is starting to ask the right type of questions, they are starting to get it. Wiggins and Sky certainly have got themselves into a bind. I guess their best move is silence and hope this goes away, perhaps Walsh will write a puff piece on Sunday to calm the waters.
There seems to be a growing realization that British sports press, personified by David Walsh, have become the laughing stock of social media. And luckily not every british journo will just sit back and watch it happen.
I'm not sure if too many british sports journos will still want to sit next to David.