Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

IMO the cabal incoporating Krebs Cycle (_frost), armchairclimber, davidmam and function all sing the same song. It's all Wiggins centric. I've been tempted to push some buttons but I'll see how things pan out over the following weeks.

Notice how there's lots of physiological "explanation" that ends up being links to 20 year old studies? Very convenient. There's no expiry date on data, but then in Ed Coyle's case, there's no data either. Very convenient.

KC can't explain things because there's nothing to support the rationale that anything Wiggins did from 2009 onwards was believable. Or even physiologically possible - clean. armchairclimber knows even less than KC.

The shock of realising KC came from an AIS background has been the hardest thing for me to comprehend. When you realise how far the rot goes.

....and then there's Froome. All those wonderful studies and explanations just look stupid when you consider Froome in the equation.

Does not compute. Not normal.

 

[itisaboutthebike]

If you do 20 squillion kliks of training on Teide it appears anything is possible.

I'd disagree (I know you're avin a larf............)

I did 17 days on Tenerife this year during Easter (as I have for the last 7 years) (9 times up Teidi ) and I was **** in the Marmotte...........(mind you in a 51 year old donkey.............).......it does help but I'm not sure the whole answer................

And yes I did cross paths with Basso, Wiggins/Sky/Grivko d

To me Wiggins doesn't look like he's enjoying being a pro bike rider anymore..............

 

[thehog]

I'd disagree (I know you're avin a larf............)

I did 17 days on Tenerife this year during Easter (as I have for the last 7 years) (9 times up Teidi ) and I was **** in the Marmotte...........(mind you in a 51 year old donkey.............).......it does help but I'm not sure the whole answer................

And yes I did cross paths with Basso, Wiggins/Sky/Grivko d

To me Wiggins doesn't look like he's enjoying being a pro bike rider anymore..............

Yes but you didn't warm down properly

My observation as well that he looks decidedly unhappy with his achievement.

btw - What time did you do for the Marmotte? Under 10 hours?

 

[ferryman]

I'd disagree (I know you're avin a larf............)

I did 17 days on Tenerife this year during Easter (as I have for the last 7 years) (9 times up Teidi ) and I was **** in the Marmotte...........(mind you in a 51 year old donkey.............).......it does help but I'm not sure the whole answer................

And yes I did cross paths with Basso, Wiggins/Sky/Grivko d

To me Wiggins doesn't look like he's enjoying being a pro bike rider anymore..............

I'm becoming a broken record on here. It's all in the book, NOTHING Tyler has not gone through. He describes it perfectly. Wiggins is the only recent fit.

 

[itisaboutthebike]

10 hours ! Mind you I didn't feel good all day......and went down with the 'flu a couple of days later. I'd had a good ride in the previous w/e's Vaujany so perhaps it was the flu coming on.

And this was on my new R3 - meant to be comfortable - but not after 10 hours. Think I'll go bak to my Ghisallo

Done no riding sicen the Marmotte.................must get out in the British damp dismal weather to star training for next year............

 

[The Hitch]

Brailsford was laying into Indurain?

Which one did Wiggins use the term "love" for, Indurain or Lance?

 

[bangnz]

To me Wiggins doesn't look like he's enjoying being a pro bike rider anymore..............

I would probably feel the same if i went against my morals and doped to win.

On the other hand i would feel the same if i upped my training and did everything i could to win cleanly and had people from allover doubting my cleanliness

 

[itisaboutthebike]

I would probably feel the same if i went against my morals and doped to win.

On the other hand i would feel the same if i upped my training and did everything i could to win cleanly and had people from allover doubting my cleanliness

Very well put.................but the probelm is (as has been pointed out) thats its several Sky riders who've miraculasly started controlling the uphill peleton

And on the days I saw Wiggins and Basso (and Nabali was on there too I believe - just didn't recognise him) they were giving it some stick uphill.

Didn't realise a Team Sky owner (Brian Cookson) was also on the UCI Managment committe - conflict if interst or what ?

"TRL (Your Racing Limited) is a holding company owned by BSkyB and on the board of TRL are two senior Sky executives and Ian Drake and Brian Cookson, the chief executive and president of British Cycling"

 

[Krebs cycle]

IMO the cabal incoporating Krebs Cycle (_frost), armchairclimber, davidmam and function all sing the same song. It's all Wiggins centric. I've been tempted to push some buttons but I'll see how things pan out over the following weeks.

Notice how there's lots of physiological "explanation" that ends up being links to 20 year old studies? Very convenient. There's no expiry date on data, but then in Ed Coyle's case, there's no data either. Very convenient.

KC can't explain things because there's nothing to support the rationale that anything Wiggins did from 2009 onwards was believable. Or even physiologically possible - clean. armchairclimber knows even less than KC.

The shock of realising KC came from an AIS background has been the hardest thing for me to comprehend. When you realise how far the rot goes.

yawn. I'm over all this BS. All I ever did was try to educate people about exercise physiology and bring an objective opinion to the forum but I got trolled and harassed by those who appear to know less about exercise science than the bottom 10% of students in my undergrad exercise physiology classes. There is plenty of rationale and it is agreed upon by sport scientists all over the world, but if you can't understand it or refuse to believe it, then that's your problem, not mine.

 

[D Avoid]

Wiggins is going to be annoyed with Brailsford calling his hero a doper.

Weller was stoned for years but I hear on the peace pipe that he surrendered and serenity is now his!!

 

[thehog]

yawn. I'm over all this BS. All I ever did was try to educate people about exercise physiology and bring an objective opinion to the forum but I got trolled and harassed by those who appear to know less about exercise science than the bottom 10% of students in my undergrad exercise physiology classes. There is plenty of rationale and it is agreed upon by sport scientists all over the world, but if you can't understand it or refuse to believe it, then that's your problem, not mine.

No sports scientist will go near Froome. Period.

196% improvement from Romandie. Not normal. Has blood extraction/transfusion written all over it.

It's not until you've doped yourself can you truly understand it.

If you have firsthand experience with athletes that are doping then I'll listen. Until then you have no idea what drugs can and can't do.

 

[ebandit]

bs?

yawn. I'm over all this BS. All I ever did was try to educate people about exercise physiology and bring an objective opinion to the forum but I got trolled and harassed by those who appear to know less about exercise science than the bottom 10% of students in my undergrad exercise physiology classes. There is plenty of rationale and it is agreed upon by sport scientists all over the world, but if you can't understand it or refuse to believe it, then that's your problem, not mine.

sir don't think that your opinion is not appreciated.......it is and you do add a scientific angle to thoughts............but don't tell me that your educating me
............like i should be grateful

and don't call opposition 'all this bs'.... others are entitled to their opinion too

i reserve judgement on team sky but there is reason for doubt in them performing clean

plenty of scope for healthy debate without members 'spitting out their dummies' just because all don't agree

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage
It is now 13 weeks and five days since Brailsford promised us an investigation into the hiring of Dr. Geert Leinders.

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage
When questioned about the investigation by a reporter recently he said "We'll come to a conclusion soon."

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage
When the story was published, Brailsford phoned the reporter's editor to complain. So much for transparency...

 

[thirteen]

beat me to it, Zam, thank you.

 

[thehog]

Johan Brailsford has learnt well. Using the force.

 

[Tuarts]

I had a thought. It made me laugh.

 

[Ferminal]

The top one looks more like Chris Froome.

 

[function]

IMO the cabal incoporating Krebs Cycle (_frost), armchairclimber, davidmam and function all sing the same song. It's all Wiggins centric. I've been tempted to push some buttons but I'll see how things pan out over the following

I am not part of some cabal against you, Please stop attempting to convey my intention and beliefs (i think thats called trolling) I rarely even post in these threads because I'm just not invested enough, and certainly not invested in where "we" stand as you attempted to point out in yet another thread.

I don't know whether wiggins is doping, it's just an Internet discussion.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

beat me to it, Zam, thank you.

Welcome, Mr. Kimmage is still tweeting away.

 

[thirteen]

Welcome, Mr. Kimmage is still tweeting away.

it's starting to get even more fun, too... once M Kimmage gets his teeth in, he doesn't let go!

 

[thirteen]

ah, Kimmages quotes were storyfied: http://storify.com/UCI_Overlord/pau...fy-pingback&awesm=sfy.co_oAEY&utm_source=t.co

(makes much easier reading)

 

[Zam_Olyas]

ah, Kimmages quotes were storyfied: http://storify.com/UCI_Overlord/pau...fy-pingback&awesm=sfy.co_oAEY&utm_source=t.co

(makes much easier reading)

Merci beaucoup

 

[armchairclimber]

IMO the cabal incoporating Krebs Cycle (_frost), armchairclimber, davidmam and function all sing the same song. It's all Wiggins centric. I've been tempted to push some buttons but I'll see how things pan out over the following weeks.

Notice how there's lots of physiological "explanation" that ends up being links to 20 year old studies? Very convenient. There's no expiry date on data, but then in Ed Coyle's case, there's no data either. Very convenient.

KC can't explain things because there's nothing to support the rationale that anything Wiggins did from 2009 onwards was believable. Or even physiologically possible - clean. armchairclimber knows even less than KC.

The shock of realising KC came from an AIS background has been the hardest thing for me to comprehend. When you realise how far the rot goes.

Cabal? What a plonker.
Check behind the sofa before you go to bed...the bogeyman may be about.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Got to say, while I've always had my reservations about Garmin, and have had my disagreements with Vaughters' opinions over the years, he certainly comes out of this looking an awful lot better.

After all, we can pick bones in what he says or doesn't say all we like... the fact of the matter is that Vaughters' commitment to clean cycling extends a lot further than Team Sky's "let's not do it, and say we did" approach to openness and transparency.

After all, what sops to transparency have we actually had out of Sky? The only thing I can even remember is a few of Chris Froome's figures from the Vuelta 2011, and even then they interestingly left out figures for the Anglirú and Peña Cabarga stages. Elsewhere it's been nothing more than a vague mentioning of Watts and of W/kg numbers. And the rest of the time, obfuscation, avoidance and delaying tactics.

As well as the investigation into Leinders (that Brailsford ran away from when questioned about it at the Worlds), there's also the fans' Q&A at the Manchester Velodrome that was supposed to happen in September. What happened to that?

 

[sniper]

Got to say, while I've always had my reservations about Garmin, and have had my disagreements with Vaughters' opinions over the years, he certainly comes out of this looking an awful lot better.

After all, we can pick bones in what he says or doesn't say all we like... the fact of the matter is that Vaughters' commitment to clean cycling extends a lot further than Team Sky's "let's not do it, and say we did" approach to openness and transparency.

After all, what sops to transparency have we actually had out of Sky? The only thing I can even remember is a few of Chris Froome's figures from the Vuelta 2011, and even then they interestingly left out figures for the Anglirú and Peña Cabarga stages. Elsewhere it's been nothing more than a vague mentioning of Watts and of W/kg numbers. And the rest of the time, obfuscation, avoidance and delaying tactics.

As well as the investigation into Leinders (that Brailsford ran away from when questioned about it at the Worlds), there's also the fans' Q&A at the Manchester Velodrome that was supposed to happen in September. What happened to that?

how exactly does Garmin come out of this looking credible?
If sky turn out to be dirty, one of the few solid conclusions we can draw is that JV has been selling us horseloads of dogcrap.
are you really saying JV's marginal gains talk alternating with the occasional give-away rant ("you haters don't love cycling") here in clinic have impressed you?
When confronted with Ashenden's recent statements, JV explicitly questioned Ashenden's credibiliy, rather than showing concern about the actual content of Ashenden's message.
None of this, really none, is consistent with a sincere anti-doping stand.