Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Ryo Hazuki]

Of course, he doesn't have the same global appeal. But it's a way to get the British market, he's their beachhead, and with Contador tainted and Andy not quite stepping up it's not like they have anyone else.

still, nothing comparable to lance. the usa/global market is important to the uci, uk the uci doesn;t care. I could understand if people came up with a chinese cyclist winning the tour and uci saving his ***, but not wiggins. in fact basically anyone I know hates wiggins and how he won the tour. when lance used to win it, he dominated. at least people got entertainment out of that. this past july was the biggest joke since andy schleck surplasse

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

50 winners in the last 20 years? I think your math is incorrect. Your reading skills are lacking. You obviously didn't read my post.

So much for trying to be smart

Do you get it? 99.99% of riders who've won the Tour have been involved in doping

I think you're the one needing reading lessons

 

[thehog]

Do you get it? 99.99% of riders who've won the Tour have been involved in doping

I think you're the one needing reading lessons

I feel for you. I really do.

Every Tour de France winner in the last 20 years has been embroiled or suspended in a doping scandal. Do you get it? 99.99% of riders who've won the Tour have been involved in doping and used high altitude/Tenerife as a means to facilitate such activity.

Nice try. But no cigar.

 

[Velo_vicar]

I feel for you. I really do.



Nice try. But no cigar.

Full stop. New Sentence.

 

[skidmark]

Every Tour de France winner in the last 20 years has been embroiled or suspended in a doping scandal. Do you get it? 99.99% of riders who've won the Tour have been involved in doping and used high altitude/Tenerife as a means to facilitate such activity.

Hog, I'm of a similar opinion to you, but your hyperbole is almost making me want to take the opposite position. Don't argue for 'facts' if you're going to get the facts wrong.

Brad Wiggins
Cadel Evans
Carlos Sastre
Oscar Pereiro

Have not been 'embroiled or suspended' in a doping scandal. That is hardly 'every winner'. Even if one winner in the last 20 years has not doped, that's at least 5% who haven't (and, if you count Armstrong's and Indurain's multiple wins as wins, it's much higher percentage). The facts are not so cut and dry as you state.

 

[thehog]

Full stop. New Sentence/statement.

Seriously? That's what you're hanging on to?

My points remain and are valid. 100%.

Sad that people choose to go down the Armstrong route of confusing double speak.

There's me thinking we could objectively talk about Sky doping/not doping.

I feel sorry for you. I really do.

 

[roundabout]

I am still hoping that we will get more information about the extent to which Pereiro was not embroiled in a certain doping scandal.

 

[thehog]

Every Tour de France winner in the last 20 years has been embroiled or suspended in a doping scandal. Do you get it? 99.99% of riders who've won the Tour have been involved in doping and used high altitude/Tenerife as a means to facilitate such activity.

Hog, I'm of a similar opinion to you, but your hyperbole is almost making me want to take the opposite position. Don't argue for 'facts' if you're going to get the facts wrong.

Brad Wiggins
Cadel Evans
Carlos Sastre
Oscar Pereiro

Have not been 'embroiled or suspended' in a doping scandal. That is hardly 'every winner'. Even if one winner in the last 20 years has not doped, that's at least 5% who haven't (and, if you count Armstrong's and Indurain's multiple wins as wins, it's much higher percentage). The facts are not so cut and dry as you state.

OSCAR!!!!!! LOL!! EVANS!!! HO HO HO!

Can someone else deal with this? I seriously can't stop laughing.

Oscar Pereiro?? You do realise he tested positive at the 2006 Tour don't you?

 

[hrotha]

I am still hoping that we will get more information about the extent to which Pereiro was not embroiled in a certain doping scandal.

That one was safely and firmly dusted under the carpet. Funny how Kolobnev and Lulu went on to be involved in other stuff, though.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I feel for you. I really do.



Nice try. But no cigar.

 

[thehog]

No. I don't say Sky are doping because thats where Ferrari went. I say Sky are doping for a number of reasons one of which is training and high altitude and in Tenerife. The pattern and context of doping becomes apparent when you add all the facts together - a doping conspiracy if you will.

Make no mistake about it. Tenerife has been used by many many many cyclists as a venue to work in with their "doping" programs. Its well documented not only in the Reasoned Decision but also in Hamilton's book and several other publications. Its not a conspiracy theory. Its in plain writing from multiple sources.

Like I've said before. Statistics are on my side. Every Tour de France winner in the last 20 years has been embroiled or suspended in a doping scandal. Do you get it? 99.99% of riders who've won the Tour have been involved in doping and used high altitude/Tenerife as a means to facilitate such activity.

This is not a conspiracy but fact.

Somehow you want me to believe Sky are in the 0.0001% of clean winners even after their display of sheer dominance? What changed in cycling to make them so clean? To buck the trend? I've not seen anything different to suggest the sport has cleaned up.

A gambling man wouldn't take the odds that they're clean. We know from the USADA files that "not testing positive" means very little.

I also think its a sad day that Sky fans are hanging on to the words of Ferrari as evidence that they're clean! Good luck with that! You do realise he just issued a statement professing his innocence? You sure you want to trust his words? Blimey! You're must be 'avin a laugh governor!

Thanks hog. Excellent post. As always.

 

[argyllflyer]

Because of serial cheats like Pharmstrong, there are people who will never accept a GT winner as being clean for perhaps the next decade, even if every single team rode clean. There always has to be one guy better than the rest. Unfortunately, most current riders have been exposed to doping to some degree, even if they have a tragic legacy of amnesia as a result. Horneritis so to speak. So whoever wins next year's Tour will no doubt be competing against someone or other tainted by doping, and thus the allegations will arise again.

On Wiggins' TT improvements... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFk0jFTkyFM look at him at 2m 2 sec from the 2009 ITT. Did he get out of his saddle once in this year's ITTs?

 

[Don Quixote]

What has Nike got to do with all this?

 

[argyllflyer]

Thanks hog. Excellent post. As always.

why are you quoting yourself?

 

[thehog]

why are you quoting yourself?

I like to reward excellence.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

why are you quoting yourself?

because he's run out of arguments and now goes the lance armstrong way, which is screaming very loudly that he is great and always right

 

[thehog]

because he's run out of arguments and now goes the lance armstrong way, which is screaming very loudly that he is great and always right

On the contrary. Not arguments but facts. All been presented with no rebuttal.

They still stand with no response. Seen it all before

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

On the contrary. Not arguments but facts. All been presented with no rebuttal.

They still stand with no response. Seen it all before

except how you don't know the difference between 20 years of tour winners and all tour winners

 

[thehog]

except how you don't know the difference between 20 years of tour winners and all tour winners

You can ignore my facts in regards to Tenerife all you like Lance. You can ignore my facts in regards to Ferrari also.

My facts remain.

You can choose not to respond to them.

I think this says more about you than me.

The knife indeed does cut deep

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

You can ignore my facts in regards to Tenerife all you like Lance. You can ignore my facts in regards to Ferrari also.

My facts remain.

You can choose not to respond to them.

I think this says more about you than me.

The knife indeed does cut deep

you can have the last word, if that gives you a boner.

 

[thehog]

you can have the last word, if that gives you a boner.

Nice avoidance of the facts

Thank-you for confirming I'm correct in my presentation of the facts.

Game, set, match Hog.

 

[Mellow Velo]

why are you quoting yourself?

Who else is going to bother?

 

[Mellow Velo]

not really. outside the uk and the Clinic, nobody gives 2 ***** about wiggins. with lance that was a lot different

Excellent post, just the slight fix needed, Ryo.

 

[The Hitch]

This reminds me of the old adage 'I'm not racist... some of my best best friends are [insert minority group]...

And I say that with Libertine, in my opinion, being one of the best posters on this forum since I have been on here. Yes, the irony...

What about "im not racist... I am one of the (insert minority group)

Libertine Seguros may see herself hisself as post nationalist, but lots of what he posts heavily suggests a British homeland, and if not Libertine, well a number of people strongly on sky dopes side are from this very island.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

You obviously didn't read my post.

As has already been pointed out, you didn't didn't limit your 99.99% to any time period. It just referred to Tour winners. So you're wrong, though if it was anyone else, I would have accepted the "99.99%" as a figure of speech and not commented. However, as you are such an arrogant twot (albeit not without a lot of valuable insight) I felt it appropriate to take what you posted literally and comment accordingly.

Even if you had limited your "99.99%" to Tour winners in the last 20 years, you still don't end up with an integer number of winners. And of course, 99.99% plus 0.0001% will never equal 100%, irrespective of the time period.