Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Franklin]

In 3-5 years time, I think they will be seen as having blazed a trail (albeit in the same direction as JV & Garmin).

How can they be blazing a trail when they are trying something that failed before, namely letting riders guarantee they never used PED's?

Sorry, this is an old and failed method and not pioneering anything at all.

It really would help if people did some research before stating these glowing but ultimately flawed recommendations.

 

[coinneach]

How can they be blazing a trail when they are trying something that failed before, namely letting riders guarantee they never used PED's?

Sorry, this is an old and failed method and not pioneering anything at all.

It really would help if people did some research before stating these glowing but ultimately flawed recommendations.

You ever been interviewed by your boss and a psychiatrist? I think that combination is as likely to get to the truth as a grand jury

 

[Roland Rat]

How can they be blazing a trail when they are trying something that failed before, namely letting riders guarantee they never used PED's?

Sorry, this is an old and failed method and not pioneering anything at all.

It really would help if people did some research before stating these glowing but ultimately flawed recommendations.

An old and failed method that Katusha tried to implement a few years ago. As I recall, Ben Swift used it as the reason to cancel his contract and move to Sky.

Wonder if Swifty will have the same principles on this occasion.

 

[Franklin]

You ever been interviewed by your boss and a psychiatrist? I think that combination is as likely to get to the truth as a grand jury

Yes, yes, I assume the psychiatrist will help in this regard, they are known to be finders of truth

Grand jury at least has a big legal angle and even that's debatable in it's effectiveness.

 

[Franklin]

An old and failed method that Katusha tried to implement a few years ago. As I recall, Ben Swift used it as the reason to cancel his contract and move to Sky.

Wonder if Swifty will have the same principles on this occasion.

Well, they have a psychiatrist now you know. He will use his psychiatricks to weed out the liars. It's something they learn at Psychiatry school.

 

[bobbins]

He does work at Rampton High Security Hospital with some pretty messed up prisoners so should be able to handle Dave B and the team ok!

 

[ToreBear]

Well, they have a psychiatrist now you know. He will use his psychiatricks to weed out the liars. It's something they learn at Psychiatry school.

Or perhaps he will make them believe that they want to tell the truth. Or they already believe it, and he can reassure them that they are making a right decision.


We might find out in a few weeks/months if this has worked, or we might not.

If guys without any suspicion on them suddenly leave the team, that might be a sign. If Wiggo leaves, then I would not doubt the process for a second.

Time will show.

 

[benlondon]

Sky's approach is doomed to fail

I'm surprised more people haven't drawn parallels between Jimmy Savile and Lance Armstrong. Both turned out to be liars and scoundrels (although Lance's crimes are less serious) and both used the trusty shields of Charity and Celebrity to hide behind.
During his lifetime there were lots of rumours about Savile so he was asked into a formal meeting with his BBC boss and low and behold he said, 'No of course I didn't do those things.' Just like any former dopers on the Sky team will no doubt say to David Brailsford.

 

[Franklin]

He does work at Rampton High Security Hospital with some pretty messed up prisoners so should be able to handle Dave B and the team ok!

Yes and there he's especially hired to find out the truth

This is beyond idiotic. Psychiatrists aren't truth seekers.

 

[racyrichuk]

Yes and there he's especially hired to find out the truth

This is beyond idiotic. Psychiatrists aren't truth seekers.

Exactly. Even Patrick Jane couldn't find the Red John mole within the CBI.

 

[131313]

this whole Sky "truth telling" thing is amazingly transparent. In a nutshell, the question is this: "did you ever do anything that will come out and make us look bad later"? If yes, quit now and we'll give you a nice severance package....if no, then keep lying about your past doping. Simple.

 

[ToreBear]

Yes and there he's especially hired to find out the truth

This is beyond idiotic. Psychiatrists aren't truth seekers.

Psychiatrists have to find out weather it is true that someone is psychotic. Some psychotics are adept at hiding their psychosis. So yes sometimes they are payed to find out the truth.

 

[Telmisartan new]

What some people might be missing here is that once Rogers and Yates go in for the interview with Davie Brailsford and Dr Leinders,sorry i mean Dr Peeters,they can't sit there and say "i have never doped" then sign the declaration.It would be patently ridiculous and Brailsford realises this,that's why he's talking about financially looking after them.

To my mind,the decision has already been made,Yates AND Rogers are finished at Sky,FFS Yates has a positive control from the Tour of Belgium and Rogers has Freiburg on his conscience,they're both goners.As for Julich and Sutton, who knows,is it a get rid of everyone policy they're going for or something to appease the hungry wolves in the short-term.I can't answer that.Brailsford is without question a lying little toe-rag but his language this week suggests to me that this time he's not spouting BS, they're really will be a cull shortly.We'll see.Maybe i have read that interview with him all wrong.

 

[Franklin]

Brailsford is without question a lying little toe-rag but his language this week suggests to me that this time he's not spouting BS, they're really will be a cull shortly.We'll see.Maybe i have read that interview with him all wrong.

If your guess is correct that he already knows who will have to go, he's a big scumbag by covering it up with this elaborate scheme.

 

[Franklin]

Psychiatrists have to find out weather it is true that someone is psychotic. Some psychotics are adept at hiding their psychosis. So yes sometimes they are payed to find out the truth.

Yes, treating someone with a psychosis certainly is the same as interviewing a person who should be deemed innocent. Indeed after this interview the psychiatrist can pick the liars from the saints.

You would wonder why this interviewing with a psychiatrist isn't standard procedure in every field.

 

[Telmisartan new]

If your guess is correct that he already knows who will have to go, he's a big scumbag by covering it up with this elaborate scheme.

The reason DB is much beloved by the press is this very reason.He loves a bit of window dressing,he's into the call a press conference in a fancy hotel with movie stars hanging about,serve the press some tasty canapes then tell them what they want to hear.He plays the media game,gives them their place,keeps everyone onside.Conniving little twerp.

 

[ToreBear]

Yes, treating someone with a psychosis certainly is the same as interviewing a person who should be deemed innocent. Indeed after this interview the psychiatrist can pick the liars from the saints.

You would wonder why this interviewing with a psychiatrist isn't standard procedure in every field.

I'm just telling you that their job is sometimes to find the truth.

 

[wirral]

Will Brailsford be signing this pledge?

 

[orbeas]

Sky

Just seen this on Brailsfords Wiki --

" Brailsford competed in France for four years as a professional cyclist before returning to the UK at 23 "

which team !!!!!! he was a pro at 19 ????

 

[coinneach]

You ever been interviewed by your boss and a psychiatrist? I think that combination is as likely to get to the truth as a grand jury

Lots of comments while I was away having dinner: thanks!
("It is better to be reviled than ignored!")

Lots of NEGATIVE comments about psychiatrists!!!!!!!!!!

I would refer you to " Heros, Villians and Velodromes"
The guy who has made the biggest difference to british cycling is not Brailsford but the psychiatrist he hired for the team: he is not some joke add-on, but an integral part of the team, the programme & the success (yes, I know, all clinic users would like to think its as easy as drugs, but there IS another way)

I am sure Brailsford would have liked to keep Rogers, Yates and that dodgy doctor I can´t spell without a spellcheck, but cycling has changed in the last couple of weeks and Sky are (slowly) waking up to that.

When they started out Sky tried to look clean,
Then they thought it wouldn´t matter if they blurred the edges
Then they started winning and the wrath of the clinic decended on them
Now they are trying to be white rather than clean

You can hate the Company, and be suspicious about procycling per-se
But I don´t think you can junk the objectives, even if some others have tried before and not succeeded
(sorry about spelling: I am abroad and this laptop doesn´t have an english spell check!)

 

[Krebs cycle]

Well, considering the Sky supporters have trouble handling facts about the roster and refuse to admit that history squarely is in favor of the cynics this will continue for quite awhile.

I openly accept that history is in favour of the cynics. It is the cynics that refuse to accept the fact that 1) history has changed and doping is not the same as it used to be, 2) many of their so called facts are either incorrect, unverified or not evidence of doping, and 3) I'm not even a Sky supporter.

 

[hrotha]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/s...-one-rider-at-a-time.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

At the last minute, the antidoping agency contacted one more cyclist — Michael Barry — because he had recently retired. Barry joined the others and told his doping tale.

“Ultimately, I was living a lie,” Barry said last week, adding that he should have been honest from the start, but he felt trapped because he would have lost his job for coming clean.

 

[ferryman]

I openly accept that history is in favour of the cynics. It is the cynics that refuse to accept the fact that 1) history has changed and doping is not the same as it used to be, 2) many of their so called facts are either incorrect, unverified or not evidence of doping, and 3) I'm not even a Sky supporter.

You could have posted this in 2000 but for Sky have used USPS. The cynics won't go away as long as Postal like performances by the like of Sky this year continue.

 

[Benotti69]

I openly accept that history is in favour of the cynics. It is the cynics that refuse to accept the fact that 1) history has changed and doping is not the same as it used to be, 2) many of their so called facts are either incorrect, unverified or not evidence of doping, and 3) I'm not even a Sky supporter.

We wont see if history has changed until it becomes history.

Doping is always evolving. We are in the era of micro doping and possible new products that allow a rider to lose weight but not power.

Sky are getting a lot of attenion becuase they won a lot this year and the manner of their wins remind a lot of people of USPS.

OPQS were getting something similar in the spring.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Lots of comments while I was away having dinner: thanks!
("It is better to be reviled than ignored!")

Lots of NEGATIVE comments about psychiatrists!!!!!!!!!!

I would refer you to " Heros, Villians and Velodromes"
The guy who has made the biggest difference to british cycling is not Brailsford but the psychiatrist he hired for the team: he is not some joke add-on, but an integral part of the team, the programme & the success (yes, I know, all clinic users would like to think its as easy as drugs, but there IS another way)

I am sure Brailsford would have liked to keep Rogers, Yates and that dodgy doctor I can´t spell without a spellcheck, but cycling has changed in the last couple of weeks and Sky are (slowly) waking up to that.

When they started out Sky tried to look clean,
Then they thought it wouldn´t matter if they blurred the edges
Then they started winning and the wrath of the clinic decended on them
Now they are trying to be white rather than clean

You can hate the Company, and be suspicious about procycling per-se
But I don´t think you can junk the objectives, even if some others have tried before and not succeeded
(sorry about spelling: I am abroad and this laptop doesn´t have an english spell check!)

They have hired people with doping pasts - are you saying the psychologist, who has "made the biggest difference to BC" was not involved in that process?

If he was involved and managed to miss the tells originally, how does he pick them up now?

Or am I missing something from your logic?