Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Libertine Seguros]

If we opened a thread about Katyusha doping, it wouldn't last long, because it would probably consist of everybody going "well, duh" and "yea, more than likely".

It is the disagreement, and the fact that many people WANT to believe in Sky, and that Sky have made a bunch of promises they can't deliver, that have led to this thread swelling to megathread proportions.

 

[blackcat]

he came out of nowhere as a mature cyclist in his late 20s to take a tilt at GC. If he was Spanish French or Portuguese, he would have been turfed because of paucity of results. He might be riding 6es in Ghent like his ol man for room and board

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You make it sound like Wiggins appeared from nowhere this year but if I was to point out that was untrue I'd just be labelled a 'fanboy' so I won't bother.

He appeared out of nowhere in 2009. An unexpected surprise 4th place in the Tour, behind known dopers.

SURPRISE!!

Coached by none other than Sky's head coach, Rod Ellingworth. But a free agent allowed to do whatever he wanted. Just as long as he passed internal controls at Garmin.

 

[Benotti69]

The stupid thing that Brailsford did not do is foresee this situation arising.

It was inevitable that Armstrong was going to get busted. The psychological make up of Armstrong meant he was going to get exposed sooner or later a he kept making enemies.

So Brailsford should have had people admit to their past and sign a contract stating that their time with Sky was going to clean and transparent. But that would have meant they are a clean team but they aren't are they.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

He appeared out of nowhere in 2009. An unexpected surprise 4th place in the Tour, behind known dopers.

SURPRISE!!

Coached by none other than Sky's head coach, Rod Ellingworth. But a free agent allowed to do whatever he wanted. Just as long as he passed internal controls at Garmin.

Yes, so the original post was a lie. Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The stupid thing that Brailsford did not do is foresee this situation arising.

It was inevitable that Armstrong was going to get busted. The psychological make up of Armstrong meant he was going to get exposed sooner or later a he kept making enemies.

So Brailsford should have had people admit to their past and sign a contract stating that their time with Sky was going to clean and transparent. But that would have meant they are a clean team but they aren't are they.

Big difference - track racing doesn't get media attention, not like road stuff, and definitely not like the Tour. Brailsford thought he knew all about media handling from his time handling Hayles slipup in 2008.

Just like Wiggins in 2006 thinking world champ and multiple olympic medallist at team and individual pursuit would nett him a win in a 4.1km prologue.

Wrong. So very naive and wrong.

I think all those times Brailsford expresses surprise it's honest, but it's about the media attention, not the evidence or the conspiracy. The scrutiny and the online forums is simply breathtaking compared to track racing attention from main stream audiences.

 

[Benotti69]

You make it sound like Wiggins appeared from nowhere this year but if I was to point out that was untrue I'd just be labelled a 'fanboy' so I won't bother.

Gruppetto for years to 4th or a podium, 3rd, as Armstrong has been stripped !


Yeah you are a fanboy if you cant see that!

 

[Benotti69]

Big difference - track racing doesn't get media attention, not like road stuff, and definitely not like the Tour. Brailsford thought he knew all about media handling from his time handling Hayles slipup in 2008.

Just like Wiggins in 2006 thinking world champ and multiple olympic medallist at team and individual pursuit would nett him a win in a 4.1km prologue.

Wrong. So very naive and wrong.

I think all those times Brailsford expresses surprise it's honest, but it's about the media attention, not the evidence or the conspiracy. The scrutiny and the online forums is simply breathtaking compared to track racing attention from main stream audiences.

It says Brailsford is stupid or has a huge ego! Maybe both!

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Gruppetto for years to 4th!


Yeah you are a fanboy if you can see that!

You deliberately lied to make your argument sound better. This isn't a matter for debate, it's a fact.

 

[workingclasshero]

You deliberately lied to make your argument sound better. This isn't a matter for debate, it's a fact.

Did or did Wiggins not come out of the grupetto to finish 4th (3rd) in 2009?

 

[Benotti69]

You deliberately lied to make your argument sound better. This isn't a matter for debate, it's a fact.

I said he made it from the Gruppetto to a podium. He has now a 3rd at 2009 TdF as Armstrong was stripped.

Cant see it can you?

 

[No_Balls]

the greatest nonsense is this post

The evil Johny Foreigner card is always very comfortable to play when you yourself are about to being busted. As long as everything is working fine, the sponsors gets what they want, which means airtime and victories, they will play along but when finally being caught it is always practical doing a flip and blame "the others". Poor, sweet, lads who seems not having a will and decensy of their own.

This card is, by the way, throwned out big time this very moment.

Where do you get all this stuff about Froome from? I genuinely do not understand why you go on about him so much in comparison to other riders..

You dont have to be sceptical to realise it is something very suspicious about Froome. He is what i would call a doping product in the very same manner as Jan Ullrich came from the systematic program in Germany during the 80´ies. He seems somewhat of a walking experiment not responding to the proper managent unless last year starting at the Vuelta in 2011. And yes, before this the guy couldnt even managed to climb a bridge and doing a proper TT before losing big time. Who would have believed this man could came out dominant against a (inserting The Clinic-logics*) suspicious field?

*I say logic because the cleanliness is shifting based on the results and selected riders. Riders of choice could still perform against dirty riders while keeping their innocence.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

I said he made it from the Gruppetto to a podium. He has now a 3rd at 2009 TdF as Armstrong was stripped.

Cant see it can you?

No, you said that at the age of 32 Wiggins appeared out of nowhere to win the TDF, Paris Nice, Romandie, the Dauphine and the Olympic time trial.

What actually happened was that at the age of 29, he shifted his focus from the track to the road and finished 4th in the TDF beaten over 6 minutes.

You can argue all you like that the improvement in 2009 was down to doping and I have no problem with that. You deliberately told a lie though to make his improvement sound ten times worse than it was. If your argument is so strong why did you need to lie?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You deliberately lied to make your argument sound better. This isn't a matter for debate, it's a fact.

The Brailsford Gambit.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

The Brailsford Gambit.

Where have I ever said anything in support of Brailsford? I don't see the relevance.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yes, so the original post was a lie. Thanks for agreeing with me.

No. Your inability to understand

Wiggins amazing transformation from the grupetto to the podium at 32.

does not make it a lie, no matter how fast that boat you're clinging to is sinking.

 

[Benotti69]

No, you said that at the age of 32 Wiggins appeared out of nowhere to win the TDF, Paris Nice, Romandie, the Dauphine and the Olympic time trial.

What actually happened was that at the age of 29, he shifted his focus from the track to the road and finished 4th in the TDF beaten over 6 minutes.

You can argue all you like that the improvement in 2009 was down to doping and I have no problem with that. You deliberately told a lie though to make his improvement sound ten times worse than it was. If your argument is so strong why did you need to lie?

top step at 32!

3rd at 28 is still extremely questionable when you consider he was in the grupetto before that.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

No. Your inability to understand



does not make it a lie, no matter how fast that boat you're clinging to is sinking.

So third in the Vuelta and first in the Dauphine was in the grupetto? I can't stop laughing!

 

[Benotti69]

Where have I ever said anything in support of Brailsford? I don't see the relevance.

Yep, Brailsford has absolutely no relevance to Sky.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

top step at 32!

3rd at 28 is still extremely questionable when you consider he was in the grupetto before that.

Changing your argument now! Pathetic.

 

[ultimobici]

It is not hard to sift through the sport and see where the doping occurs if you are not new to the sport.

Let fanboyism get in the way and you might aswell forget about doping because you wont want to believe your hero dopes. Hence so many Brit fanboys doing their best to deny Wiggins amazing transformation from the grupetto to the podium at 32.

Have you looked at Wiggins's role prior to 2009? He turned pro in January 2001 for a month. His real start in the pro ranks was 2002 at FdJ where he was not riding the Tour let alone being a protected rider. For most of his time at FdJ & CA he was learning the ropes and then preparing for the Olympics in Athens. Similarly at Cofidis he was only there to support Moncoutié, whilst having a stab at prologues. As a foreign rider on traditional French teams he would not have been seen as a potential Tour contender, even in Legeay's anglophile eyes.

I don't dismiss the possibility of him doping, as it is impossible to rule it out. But to cite his limited starts & positions as evidence is wholly unfair.

2006 - First Tour (124th @ 3h 24')
2007 - Team withdrawn (while 131rd @ coincidentally 3h 24'!)
2008 - Not selected to ride (Olympics)
2009 - Garmin (4th with a team supporting him)
2010 - Sky (24th with a team supporting him)
2011 - Crashed out with broken collarbone
2012 - Wins with team built to do the job

 

[Benotti69]

So third in the Vuelta and first in the Dauphine was in the grupetto? I can't stop laughing!

3rd in 2011 at La Vuelta.

1st in the Dauphine in 2011

His transformation happened in 2009, from 2006 in the Grupetto to 3rd in 2009.

Nothing to see move along!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So third in the Vuelta and first in the Dauphine was in the grupetto? I can't stop laughing!

Neither can Brad. Rubbing Johnny Foreigner's nose in his millions of British off-shore pounds gained via doping.

Wot a larf!

 

[Benotti69]

Have you looked at Wiggins's role prior to 2009? He turned pro in January 2001 for a month. His real start in the pro ranks was 2002 at FdJ where he was not riding the Tour let alone being a protected rider. For most of his time at FdJ & CA he was learning the ropes and then preparing for the Olympics in Athens. Similarly at Cofidis he was only there to support Moncoutié, whilst having a stab at prologues. As a foreign rider on traditional French teams he would not have been seen as a potential Tour contender, even in Legeay's anglophile eyes.

I don't dismiss the possibility of him doping, as it is impossible to rule it out. But to cite his limited starts & positions as evidence is wholly unfair.

2006 - First Tour (124th @ 3h 24')
2007 - Team withdrawn (while 131rd @ coincidentally 3h 24'!)
2008 - Not selected to ride (Olympics)
2009 - Garmin (4th with a team supporting him)
2010 - Sky (24th with a team supporting him)
2011 - Crashed out with broken collarbone
2012 - Wins with team built to do the job

Have you compared that to TdF winners and podium place getters before OxygenVector doping changed riders from Grupetto fodder to the podium?

When you do that, you will see the GT donkey Wiggins is.

2005 giro 123rd
2006 TdF 124th
2008 giro 138th

2009 giro 71st

2009 TdF 3rd.
2010 Giro 40th
2010 TdF 24th
2011 Vuelta 3rd
2012 TdF 1st.

Talk about inconsistency. Up and down like a brassers drawers! Doping consistency!

Edit! When did Leinders get hired. 2011? look at the marginal gains he injected

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Have you looked at Wiggins's role prior to 2009? He turned pro in January 2001 for a month. His real start in the pro ranks was 2002 at FdJ where he was not riding the Tour let alone being a protected rider. For most of his time at FdJ & CA he was learning the ropes and then preparing for the Olympics in Athens. Similarly at Cofidis he was only there to support Moncoutié, whilst having a stab at prologues. As a foreign rider on traditional French teams he would not have been seen as a potential Tour contender, even in Legeay's anglophile eyes.

I don't dismiss the possibility of him doping, as it is impossible to rule it out. But to cite his limited starts & positions as evidence is wholly unfair.

2006 - First Tour (124th @ 3h 24')

No no no no no no wrong.

2006 Dauphine prolog. Read up. Dedicated to the road. 21st. Not a GC rider. Not even a TTer.