Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[BroDeal]

Check out 7th

Is this the same Moncoutie who once said that at the Dauphine Libere he could be competitive but a few weeks later the riders would take a huge step up and competing at the Tour was impossible? That Moncoutie?

 

[delbified]

is this being discussed elsewhere or has the irony of Wiggo's abrupt assessment of those assessing his cleanliness online gone over everyone's head here?

 

[Galic Ho]

I SAID I disagreed on the count that it made criminals of athletes. Cross border transportation, and accessing off-label pharma, is merely the cypher to frame my point. I said, athletes should not be made into criminals, for our ends of consumer entertainment.

Gotta stop taking stuff literally, and see themes as starting points. Not the literal definition.

Good point. Forgot about the cross borders stuff. My bad. Few of the riders live in France and the ones who do look remarkably cleaner than the rest. I stand corrected.

I was also reading Ashenden's nyvelocity article about Contador. He seems to hold a similar viewpoint. He didn't talk you around did he? I liked his viewpoint that he didn't believe all athletes and cyclists would inherently go out of their way to out dope their rivals but instead they did it because they are by products of a system that has disillusioned them in a separate way that it has fans. That the system means they can't readily compete clean. I get that...how pliable that really is comes down to a number of unmeasurable aspects. But he made some nice points.

Oh and he also cleared up all the Contador stuff. Got no doubt now as to what happened. Sad really. Technicalities ruling the day. I also liked the apparent ideology behind the science he mentioned. Being that it is almost impossible to replicate your natural haemoglobin and reticulocyte levels with a blood doping, epo microdosing and blood plasma program. It made it clear that all people doing it have tells. All of them. Sounds like the only people clear are the ones who were zeros on the UCI suspicion list. Add the two together and this sport really is sad. It isn't any cleaner than we've been told.

 

[Ripper]

is this being discussed elsewhere or has the irony of Wiggo's abrupt assessment of those assessing his cleanliness online gone over everyone's head here?

About 100+ posts ago in this thread

 

[Ripper]

Contador's 2010 Astana with the threat of a fully charged RadioShack never did the damage of Sky. In fact an 09 Astana bar solo Contador didn't do that type of carnage.

If Wiggins catches Evans tomorrow not sure whether I'll laugh or cry.... probably both. Froome will probably catch Evans!

Tomorrow will really show it, won't it? If Wiggo catches Evans, then it will be hard to continue watching. Not because I am some sort of deluded Evans fanboy, but because it will defy anything I can believe about the small differences between elite level athletes.

However, I also wonder if now that we are past the one week mark, things will start getting a bit weird for Mr. Wiggo. He certainly looks (and sounds) stressed. If the times are really close (say within 10-20 seconds), then things might be more believable than I thought.

It would be somewhat entertaining if Wiggo cracked tomorrow. I might also end up liking him more.

Funny thing about Wiggo ... I used to somewhat like him. Some pretty good track racing there. But he is really coming across like a spoiled dumba$s *** right now. I know lots of folks under incredible pressure ... none of them act like a wee child with a potty mouth like he has.

What a f*cking prima donna.

 

[nevada]

There's a lot of tw@ts on this **** board.

 

[Ripper]

There's a lot of tw@ts on this **** board.

Just trying to get a rise?

 

[nevada]

Just trying to get a rise?

You're one of them.

You ever devoted your life to being the best. Done it clean. Done it through hard work. Then lead that very race you've dreamed of leading and some faceless morons accuse you of doping.....and then idiots on here call you potty mouth.

Get a life.

 

[meat puppet]

You're one of them.

You ever devoted your life to being the best. Done it clean. Done it through hard work. Then lead that very race you've dreamed of leading and some faceless morons accuse you of doping.....and then idiots on here call you potty mouth.

Get a life.

Yeah, they are such heroes.

Do you consider contracts of a juridical kind legally, societally and morally binding? To get licences, the riders sign such pieces of toilet paper. There are clauses that prohibit certain practices, ie. doping.

There are reasons not to believe what the riders say about them obeying what they themselves have agreed to obey.

I take it that for you it is perfectly okay for us mere mortal workers to disobey juridical norms when we please, too.

Interrogation of claims via assessing their purchase to universality is a *****. Only kants would do that.

 

[nevada]

Yeah, they are such heroes.

Do you consider contracts of a juridical kind legally, societally and morally binding? To get licences, the riders sign such pieces of toilet paper. There are clauses that prohibit certain practices, ie. doping.

There are reasons not to believe what the riders say about them obeying what they themselves have agreed to obey.

I take it that for you it is perfectly okay for us mere mortal workers to disobey juridical norms when we please, too.

Interrogation of claims via assessing their purchase to universality is a *****. Only kants would do that.

What the foock are you talking about.

 

[rata de sentina]

What the foock are you talking about.

It's alright, no-one of your ilk could be expected to understand that.

 

[D-Queued]

I mentioned this before.

Wiggins all year has been referring to Sky as USPS and Banesto. Even after Saturdays stage he was referring it to a "Indurain" like performance. So when someone asks a fairly innocuous question he loses it?

I dont get it. The question wasn't accusatory. The journalist wanted to know what he thought about Sky being a little like Poatal.

A better answer would have been "USPS was different era, I'm here to talk about Sky and winning the Tour" next question..... simple.

By behaving the way he did meant he made the link to drugs and Sky. As did Rogers and everyone else who backed Wiggins. Who said anything about drugs? According to Brad Lance never tested positive and that was good enough for him. Why the outrage at the simple mention of Postal? and CVV? What's he getting upset about? He testified!

Point very well taken.

This in from last year's Vuelta:

“When I took the lead of the front group three kilometres away from the top, I rode fast despite the headwind. I’m pretty good at guessing when my adversaries aren’t well. For three kilometres, I’ve ridden like Miguel Indurain! I had never done that before. I’ve done it after the great work done by Chris [Froome]. It’s fantastic for him to be in the lead. He deserves it and it takes some pressure from me.”

Dave.

 

[nevada]

It's alright, no-one of your ilk could be expected to understand that.

So explain what rules have been broken ?

 

[noddy69]

You're one of them.

You ever devoted your life to being the best. Done it clean. Done it through hard work. Then lead that very race you've dreamed of leading and some faceless morons accuse you of doping.....and then idiots on here call you potty mouth.

Get a life.

He did curse the accusers and use language that was offensive, so only calling him potty mouth is tame.
Wiggins is a big lad who could do the cycling world some good and instead of attacking the accusers in a Lance like move and getting applauded he should recite an anti doping message.

Wiggins could gain alot here, he could do cycling a real favour and promote a clean peleton, as could others in the race considering what is surrounding the race at the moment regarding its past. Instead he has gone on the attack.
For some that is enough as the man doth protest too much.
Instead of helping the sport at a time when its needed Bradley and co could be doing it more damage.

 

[hrotha]

Being skeptical of any dominating performance is the opposite of moronic.

Also, I could accuse Wiggo of talking **** just because he could never make it as a translator and he doesn't have any idea of what my job entails, so he chose the easy way out and became a pro athlete. Does that sound ridiculous? Well, it's what he did yesterday.

 

[Zarvinov]

The impossibility of innocence and the cancer of doubt.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/the-impossibility-of-innocence-and-the-cancer-of-doubt/

 

[Zarvinov]

Warning the following video contains some strong language

VIDEO: Wiggins swears after doping jibes, knocks camerman, Tour de France

http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Wiggin...rance/tabid/415/articleID/260629/Default.aspx

 

[Northern rider]

There are some other similarities between US and “UK” Postal relating to funding. While I believe the US Postal Service is independent of the Government, they would be a quasi-governmental organisation, benefiting from tax breaks and subsidies ? Sky are obviously sponsored by a company controlled by a megalomaniacal media tyrant, but the team has its genesis in the national team that got a lot of funding from the National Lottery. Again, this is run by a private company, but the distribution of cash is done by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport.

If Sky are operating an organised doping program, there would be major ramifications to the national squad given there is a blurred line between the two. Mr Murdoch isn’t the most popular man in large parts of the House of Commons, so if anything came to light, you can bet there’d be a bit of an uproar and Brailsford would be in a sticky situation. It either means they have internal omerta tighter than a gnat’s chuff with Brailsford insulated by plausible denial, or they’re hoping that time won’t reveal anything. Or they could be clean.

Wiggins and Armstrong also share a couple of similarities, they both transformed into GT riders from another entirely different side of sport and they both had a father who abandoned them at an early age. Maybe this partly fuels Wiggins’ admiration of Armstrong, you’d think he’d be backing away from that given the USADA case, but I get the feeling he’s not the sharpest tool* in the box.

Time will tell in the end.

*mind you, he is a tool.

 

[unsheath]

That article was a snooze fest. Gave up after the 2nd paragraph.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Evans is matching Sky's performance despite being isolated on climbs and even had a dig today at the end.

So Evans is doped as well.

 

[hrotha]

Evans is matching Sky's performance despite being isolated on climbs and even had a dig today at the end.

So Evans is doped as well.

Sigh.

The problem is not Wiggins. It's not Froome. It's not Porte. It's not Rogers. It's none of them in isolation (well, Rogers...). It's the combination of all of them.

 

[RownhamHill]

Funny thing about Wiggo ... I used to somewhat like him. Some pretty good track racing there. But he is really coming across like a spoiled dumba$s *** right now. I know lots of folks under incredible pressure ... none of them act like a wee child with a potty mouth like he has.

What a f*cking prima donna.

Linguistically this is a great way to make your point. Not sure if the irony was intentional or not, but either way it's pretty funny!

 

[UlleGigo]

Evans is matching Sky's performance despite being isolated on climbs and even had a dig today at the end.

So Evans is doped as well.

Cool story bro. Oh wait your a girl? Girl logic. Teehee.

 

[Bonkstrong]

There is some desperate barrel scraping going on in this thread and I'm struggling to figure out who's trolling and who isn't.

Brad's only winning because he's doping is a bigger myth that Lance's clean streak..

 

[Caruut]

There is some desperate barrel scraping going on in this thread and I'm struggling to figure out who's trolling and who isn't.

Brad's only winning because he's doping is a bigger myth that Lance's clean streak..

Care to highlight what it is, then?