Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[SundayRider]

All you was the same as Brailsford! For someone in his position to say 'the truth is not important' is outrageous.

 

[Joachim]

No....I'm showing you that what he said is a coherent argument for cleaner sport.

You and I might think it's bullsh!t, you might think he's a masterdope Lord presiding over a team of Uber alien Lizard cyclists doped up to their cloaca, but leave the personalities aside for a moment and think about the words.

 

[coinneach]

I think the evidence from South Africa about truth & reconcilliation was that it was a mixed bag. Certainly not a magic bullet to cure everything, but certainly better than doing nothing. Some folk like Winnie Mandela P****d all over it.

So Brailsford is entitled to his opinion on this, and that does NOT mean he want to enforce Omerta (though I wish he'd be more forthcoming about some things himself)

 

[thehog]

I think the evidence from South Africa about truth & reconcilliation was that it was a mixed bag. Certainly not a magic bullet to cure everything, but certainly better than doing nothing. Some folk like Winnie Mandela P****d all over it.

So Brailsford is entitled to his opinion on this, and that does NOT mean he want to enforce Omerta (though I wish he'd be more forthcoming about some things himself)

Lately, those with an axe to grind and who are bitter appear to be telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Why is that?

Why don't we want to hear from those people?

http://www.nmplive.co.uk/viewTalent.aspx?id=2351

Oh, I see. Profit. Personal profit. Now I understand.

 

[Caruut]

If this isn't Omerta then I don't know what is.

It most definitely is omerta! To respond to DB's comments:

There is this idea that if everyone tells the truth it will make it all better. No it won’t. Telling the truth doesn’t make it better. It’s about acting on the information that you find and doing something tangible with that information to make sure it doesn’t happen in the future.

Even the naked truth with no official consequences gives us a picture of how far into modern cycling the rot of the past still goes. Knowing which previously guilty individuals are still among us surely has some value if you truly want to rid the sport of doping.

This idea of everyone telling the truth and it all goes into a pot, is it going to change anything? If it is about trying to identify all the individuals who were involved only to say, ‘OK you’re off the hook’, then what have you learned?

Brailsford is attacking something of a strawman here. Is anyone seriously suggesting that all this process is about is providing a load of source material for dopeology.org? Of course there are going to be consequences, even if only reputational.

Now I will take a couple of sentences to suggest that Brailsford's hostility here is pure, naked self-interest. A truth and reconciliation process might turn up a lot of information about Brailsford's riders, support staff and even the man himself than he doesn't want public. If he thinks just learning the truth is silly, can he explain why the truth and no consequences is better than a lie and no consequences? That seems to be his preference here.

 

[thehog]

What the hell does Brailsford know anyway? He's a rookie in road cycling terms. He's only been involved in the game for 3-4 years.

Get him out. None of hs business.

He was in diapers during Festina.

What a tool!

 

[Benotti69]

What the hell does Brailsford know anyway? He's a rookie in road cycling terms. He's only been involved in the game for 3-4 years.

Get him out. None of hs business.

He was in diapers during Festina.

What a tool!

A T&R could totally expose Brailsford work at BC. Why would riders not tell all about their time 'preparing' for track and those who helped them 'prepare'.

It seems strange that a team that tried to sell the 'transparency' of their preparation would be against a transparent T&R.

Sky still making the wrong noises. I suppose we know why.

 

[hrotha]

While I don't think Brailsford is being sincere about his reasons for opposing a T&R process, he does have a point. We need to know exactly what happens afterwards.

 

[coinneach]

It would have been better if he had said:

"
“Telling the truth in itself doesn’t make it better"

Being generally pro Sky, I read it like that, but of course, many clinic posters will read it differently

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Theory: Brailsford knows what he says is going to be published. He can say almost anything, and it will be printed in the papers and splashed across the Internet.

We're assuming he's responding to a journalist.

Who could he be talking to? Sending a message to?

If you were a rider, reading this, would you believe him? Would you accept that even if you spilled the beans, nothing would change, nothing would happen? Which is what Brailsford is essentially saying?

Sewing doubt?

 

[SundayRider]

I agree with Caruut, the truth and no consequences is always better than a lie and no consequences. At least we will all know then. If you have nothing to hide you wouldn't be bothered about a T & R.

 

[Grandillusion]

Theory: Brailsford knows what he says is going to be published. He can say almost anything, and it will be printed in the papers and splashed across the Internet.

We're assuming he's responding to a journalist.

Who could he be talking to? Sending a message to?

If you were a rider, reading this, would you believe him? Would you accept that even if you spilled the beans, nothing would change, nothing would happen? Which is what Brailsford is essentially saying?

Sewing doubt?

Well it certainly wasn't published on the cyclingnews news section. Not a dickie bird. I thought someone on here might have noticed & commented. This was all days ago & barely anybody's expressed any interest besides sneering & dismissal & ignoring. Weird.

 

[SundayRider]

Well it certainly wasn't published on the cyclingnews news section. Not a dickie bird. I thought someone on here might have noticed & commented. This was all days ago & barely anybody's expressed any interest besides sneering & dismissal & ignoring. Weird.

It was fairly widely reported in the British press.

 

[Grandillusion]

It was fairly widely reported in the British press.

I know, that's where I heard it from...days ago. Not a dickie bird on here.

 

[Benotti69]

Well it certainly wasn't published on the cyclingnews news section. Not a dickie bird. I thought someone on here might have noticed & commented. This was all days ago & barely anybody's expressed any interest besides sneering & dismissal & ignoring. Weird.

It will be now that they read it in the clinic.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Well it certainly wasn't published on the cyclingnews news section. Not a dickie bird. I thought someone on here might have noticed & commented. This was all days ago & barely anybody's expressed any interest besides sneering & dismissal & ignoring. Weird.

Curious. I only follow a few people on Twitter but they were aghast at his words, which is also where I first read it.

 

[Grandillusion]

It will be now that they read it in the clinic.

Had to read that a few times.. at first I thought you meant 'It will be NOW that they read it in the clinic'.

Just realised you meant 'It will be ignored, dismissed & sneered at now it's in the clinic'. You're right, that's all the response it's had pretty much.

 

[Benotti69]

Had to read that a few times.. at first I thought you meant 'It will be NOW that they read it in the clinic'.

Just realised you meant 'It will be ignored, dismissed & sneered at now it's in the clinic'. You're right, that's all the response it's had pretty much.

No, it will be now be published by CN now that they have read about it in the clinic.

 

[bicifan]

Do they have a motoman?

 

[xcleigh]

Curious. I only follow a few people on Twitter but they were aghast at his words, which is also where I first read it.

I didn't realise Katie Price liked cycling

 

[roundabout]

DB - “There is this idea that if everyone tells the truth it will make it all better. No it won’t,” Brailsford, the Team Sky principal, said.

“Telling the truth doesn’t make it better. It’s about acting on the information that you find and doing something tangible with that information to make sure it doesn’t happen in the future.

“This idea of everyone telling the truth and it all goes into a pot, is it going to change anything? If it is about trying to identify all the individuals who were involved only to say, ‘OK you’re off the hook’, then what have you learned?”

If this isn't Omerta then I don't know what is.

Says the guy who made his riders sign a piece of paper.

Of course it didn't get "better" for those who finally told the truth.

 

[Grandillusion]

No, it will be now be published by CN now that they have read about it in the clinic.

Ha ha! Three interpretations of a simple little sentence, I should have guessed correct first time

Don't know if you're being literal in your assertion, but has such shameful journalistic incompetence happened here before? I was reading 'sinister' intent where maybe none exists.

 

[SundayRider]

Brailsford also said if he knew then what he knows now about Leinders then he would not have went anywhere near him. Then he says 'the truth is not that important'. !

 

[MatParker117]

What Sir Dave is saying is that it's all well and good knowing how these guys doped but if you do nothing with that information then what was the bleeding point?

 

[Mellow Velo]

DB - “There is this idea that if everyone tells the truth it will make it all better. No it won’t,” Brailsford, the Team Sky principal, said.

“Telling the truth doesn’t make it better. It’s about acting on the information that you find and doing something tangible with that information to make sure it doesn’t happen in the future.

“This idea of everyone telling the truth and it all goes into a pot, is it going to change anything? If it is about trying to identify all the individuals who were involved only to say, ‘OK you’re off the hook’, then what have you learned?”

If this isn't Omerta then I don't know what is.

Omerta?

Funny, to me it sounds remarkably like a hard-core Clinic posters response to anyone who has "confessed", or claiming to "have ridden clean".

Not good enough, needs to name names, round them up, break the ring.
Take affirmative action: the Clinic mantra.

Either the Clinic has been preaching Omerta all along, or once again it's a case of debunk by means of micro mis-analysing, the message, then shoot the disliked messenger.