Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[horsinabout]

Of course.

No wonder China shuts off the Internet.

$1000 Sky release some form of Coyle report in the next 6 months. It will be about the big engines from Wiggins, Froome and Portre. It will have loads of data to make the Skybots go gooey eyed and leave out key information on blood parameters. It will be signed off but some sport scientist no one has ever heard of before to demonstrate how Sky train clean but train harder!

Me suspects that you have seen it all before...

China shut down the social media, we just lean on the press and buy them off.

So will they still get away with it?

I think the whole Brailsford and BC set up is a farce, built up from National pride surounding the London Olympics.

 

[coinneach]

Me suspects that you have seen it all before...

China shut down the social media, we just lean on the press and buy them off.

So will they still get away with it?

I think the whole Brailsford and BC set up is a farce, built up from National pride surounding the London Olympics.

Which Olympics were those? 1948??

You got your time frame seriously out. The build up to British Cycling success predates the London '12 Olympics by about 15 years.

 

[Benotti69]

Still don't think it will prove anything either way. Change the UCI, get WADA to do the testing and control the BP. Do you disagree?

Are Sky asking for change at UCI and independent testing?

 

[thehog]

Good old Wiggo, always embarrassing me in public.

No. You do that job all by yourself.

 

[horsinabout]

Which Olympics were those? 1948??

You got your time frame seriously out; maybe you should think a bit first before posting quotes from "each other"

The build up to British Cycling success predates the London '12 Olympics by about 15 years.

Not the winning of the TDF. This coincided with the London Olympics 2012.
I have asked for clarification from Mr Brailsford regarding BC improvements over the past 15 years, here on the forum.

 

[JimmyFingers]

No. You do that job all by yourself.

My friend that is witless

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Release it to who, to you? And what will you do with it? What will the clinic do with it?

I've heard calls of this nature and I don't get it: what will it accomplish? Will one by one the forums and twitter feeds fall silent, then gradually the applause will start slowly and build to a huge crescendo?

Who here is qualified to assess that data? Imagine the bedroom scientists all doing their flawed calculations and coming up with wildly divergent conclusions. Imagine the all the arguments. It would be chaos, a glorious chaos probably but I doubt it would accomplish much.

I don't think it would solve anything. THE blood data is being analysed by people that know what they are doing, but the governing body who controls the process is corrupt. Remove them, get testing we can trust and maybe the chat rooms will fall silent. Until that happens we are in this revolving door of theory and counter-theory.

Enjoy the ride

Really? You think I want the data? I wouldn't have any idea what to do with it. First plan would be to print it out, and start the papier mache - I want a pinata, b*tches!

Don't be an idiot. Just release the data so there is some form of independent oversight vis a vis the BioPass the UCI keeps trumpeting.

They've been proven to be ineffective at monitoring AAFs, so how about someone independent gets on it. Maybe Ashenden, maybe @veloclinic, maybe Vayer, maybe AAF, maybe even WADA.

If your boys in black and blue have nothing to hide, then it should be a go, right?

Right?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

funny getting 'history' lessons from some of you. I was at the 1991 Tour de France. Indurain did not 'crush' everyone in the ITT before the mountains. Greg was less than 10 seconds slower than Indurain in that time trial and was leading the race after it (and had a 2 minute margin over Indurain).

That Tour was decided on stage 13, a brutal 7 hour stage over Pourtalet, Aubisque, Tourmalet, Aspin, to Val Louron. Then there was another brutal 7.5 mountain stage in the alps. Some riders were just better at 'recovery.'

So you agree Indurain killed everyone of in the TT, or did you forget how he and Capucino and on a lower point Bugno [all Conconi boys] made a mockery out of the peloton? That TT was for the records, Conconi had his full podium from the start.

Kuddo's that you were in France at that time. Liked the EPO speed? Fatty Indurain went slower than Wiggins matey.

 

[jamesmasters]

here's a thought....if Sky are and always have been clean, then Wiggins was probably the highest placed clean rider in the 2009 Tour.

Contador - Steak fuelled sprint up Verbier
Schleck - All in the family
Armstrong - No comment needed

 

[BYOP88]

here's a thought....if Sky are and always have been clean, then Wiggins was probably the highest placed clean rider in the 2009 Tour.

Contador - Steak fuelled sprint up Verbier
Schleck - All in the family
Armstrong - No comment needed

And he also managed to beat a few well known dopers to that 4th spot.

 

[mastersracer]

So you agree Indurain killed everyone of in the TT, or did you forget how he and Capucino and on a lower point Bugno [all Conconi boys] made a mockery out of the peloton? That TT was for the records, Conconi had his full podium from the start.

Kuddo's that you were in France at that time. Liked the EPO speed? Fatty Indurain went slower than Wiggins matey.

Indurain was slower because the mountains stages were 2 hours longer and far more brutal than the mountain stages of 2012.

Not sure where you get Indurain crushing people in the ITT (73 km 2 minutes on Delgado...)

Stage 8: Saturday, July 13, Argentan - Alençon 73 km Individual Time Trial

1. Miguel Indurain: 1hr 35min 44sec
2. Greg LeMond @ 8sec
3. Jean-François Bernard @ 53sec
4. Erik Breukink @ 1min 14sec
5. Gianni Bugno @ 1min 31sec
6. Melchior Mauri @ 1min 33sec
7. Djamolidine Abdoujaparov @ 1min 37sec
8. Pedro Delgado @ 2min 5sec
9. Pascal Lance @ 2min 16sec
10. Philippe Louviot @ 2min 18sec

 

[northstar]

here's a thought....if Sky are and always have been clean, then Wiggins was probably the highest placed clean rider in the 2009 Tour.

Contador - Steak fuelled sprint up Verbier
Schleck - All in the family
Armstrong - No comment needed

Erm, Wiggins rode for Garmin in 2009. But Garmin's a "clean" team so same analogy applies if you want.

 

[DirtyWorks]

here's a thought....if Sky are and always have been clean, then Wiggins was probably the highest placed clean rider in the 2009 Tour.

Contador - Steak fuelled sprint up Verbier
Schleck - All in the family
Armstrong - No comment needed

And where was this Grand Tour capability in his 20's? Pre-EPO athletes in the history of Grand Tours consistently showed themselves. Oh, but he was just perfecting his track events.

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

And where was this Grand Tour capability in his 20's? Pre-EPO athletes in the history of Grand Tours consistently showed themselves. Oh, but he was just perfecting his track events.

His 20s coincided with the EPO/blood era. If he had been competing at the top end during that time that would also be used as evidence of him doping

 

[lemoogle]

Release it to who, to you? And what will you do with it? What will the clinic do with it?

It's probably the most ridiculous thing that you believe more than anything that sky are clean but you don't think they should release their results. Like it's been said before, SOMEONE will know what to do with those results, and let's be honest once again, can you PLEASE explain to me WHY sky wouldn't release their results if they were so clean and so aware of the doubts in then. Don't they want the publicity? seriously, how you can just make excuses for them really stuns me sometime.

It's like being suspected of being thief and completely acknowledging why you should be but not wanting to empty your pockets when it takes NO effort.

I also find it ridiculous that you say that about releasing the results and us not being able to make sense of the data yet you keep using completely unofficial data in the shape of the wattages/kg and some estimations of what is "possible clean" etc.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Are Sky asking for change at UCI and independent testing?

Not that I am aware of, no, but how many teams are? They have shelled a few out the back because of drugs, but I'll concede there is an element of smoke and mirrors to their approach in a PR sense.

 

[JimmyFingers]

It's probably the most ridiculous thing that you believe more than anything that sky are clean but you don't think they should release their results. Like it's been said before, SOMEONE will know what to do with those results, and let's be honest once again, can you PLEASE explain to me WHY sky wouldn't release their results if they were so clean and so aware of the doubts in then. Don't they want the publicity? seriously, how you can just make excuses for them really stuns me sometime.

It's like being suspected of being thief and completely acknowledging why you should be but not wanting to empty your pockets when it takes NO effort.

I also find it ridiculous that you say that about releasing the results and us not being able to make sense of the data yet you keep using completely unofficial data in the shape of the wattages/kg and some estimations of what is "possible clean" etc.

Sorry this is farcical. What is 'official data'? Who here is the clinic uses it exactly? You? Show where you use 'official data' to prove any of your points.

And please show me where I 'keep using completely unofficial data' to prove mine? I very rarely if ever talk in numbers, I know I'm not qualified to remark on it.

Unlike you obviously. So pray, do tell all, I can't wait.

 

[Benotti69]

Not that I am aware of, no, but how many teams are? They have shelled a few out the back because of drugs, but I'll concede there is an element of smoke and mirrors to their approach in a PR sense.

The other teams are not declaring ZTD. The other teams didn't make a lot of noise about being clean then hire loads of dodgy people that they then needed to sack.

When it gets hard for ya Jimmy ya keep saying "the other teams, the other teams".

This is the Sky thread. We have threads on all the others and their doping too.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Indurain was slower because the mountains stages were 2 hours longer and far more brutal than the mountain stages of 2012.

Not sure where you get Indurain crushing people in the ITT (73 km 2 minutes on Delgado...)

Stage 8: Saturday, July 13, Argentan - Alençon 73 km Individual Time Trial

1. Miguel Indurain: 1hr 35min 44sec
2. Greg LeMond @ 8sec
3. Jean-François Bernard @ 53sec
4. Erik Breukink @ 1min 14sec
5. Gianni Bugno @ 1min 31sec
6. Melchior Mauri @ 1min 33sec
7. Djamolidine Abdoujaparov @ 1min 37sec
8. Pedro Delgado @ 2min 5sec
9. Pascal Lance @ 2min 16sec
10. Philippe Louviot @ 2min 18sec

Me just guesses putting 1 minute 30 on Bugno was enough to seal the deal back then. The only possible threat could have come from Breukink, but helais, he and his team had some bad stored EPO the day before that TT.

Done deal. If you have any historical knowledge on cycling you would say the same.

 

[JimmyFingers]

The other teams are not declaring ZTD. The other teams didn't make a lot of noise about being clean then hire loads of dodgy people that they then needed to sack.

When it gets hard for ya Jimmy ya keep saying "the other teams, the other teams".

This is the Sky thread. We have threads on all the others and their doping too.

I'll accept and counter by saying Sky should shut up like the other teams. I'm not sure what it would accomplish regarding the fight against doping but by shutting up they'd fly under the radar more, like the rest of the teams.

It's a Catch 22 really.

 

[observer]

Does anyone know how Rodgers has been doing since he left Sky? I haven't seen anything at all

 

[the sceptic]

Does anyone know how Rodgers has been doing since he left Sky? I haven't seen anything at all

He stopped warming down so now he is losing 17 minutes on stages where he is supposed to help Contador

 

[mastersracer]

The other teams are not declaring ZTD. The other teams didn't make a lot of noise about being clean then hire loads of dodgy people that they then needed to sack.

When it gets hard for ya Jimmy ya keep saying "the other teams, the other teams".

This is the Sky thread. We have threads on all the others and their doping too.

how many other teams have embedded journalists? Or do you believe the nonsense that Walsh has lost his integrity? A charge that most would find to be completely baseless and pretty offensive.

 

[thehog]

I'll accept and counter by saying Sky should shut up like the other teams. I'm not sure what it would accomplish regarding the fight against doping but by shutting up they'd fly under the radar more, like the rest of the teams.

It's a Catch 22 really.

Ag2R have all the details of their anti doping policy on their website including recruitment. They have also opened a sports science university.

I guess JV would suggest they haven't recruited properly because they don't win

As well as assessing the physical capacities of the riders, the manager takes precise criteria into consideration at the time of recruitment:

We recruit riders who already have an anti-doping culture. For example, in the “Chambéry Cyclisme Formation” training centre, the riders are regularly informed, educated and tested with regards to doping by the doctor of the professional team.

Riders are hired after strict checking of all of their biological and physiological examinations, their health card and the results of the biological passport from Union Cycliste Internationale.

Riders who have already tested positive or been implicated in a doping incident are not hired. The same principle applies for the recruitment of staff.

That's ZERO tolerance.

It's not PR like Sky. It's the rules.

http://www.cyclisme.ag2rlamondiale.fr/english/anti-doping/recruitment.asp

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

He stopped warming down so now he is losing 17 minutes on stages where he is supposed to help Contador

He's stopped doping by joining a team with Contador run by Riis. Oh, wait a minute.