Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[The Hitch]

FFS lets wait to see what actually happens in Flanders.

Did none of you learn your lessons from when you predicted Froome would win Prato de Tivo by minutes and when he actually does fly away from everyone but its not minutes, his performance starts to look normal.

 

[JimmyFingers]

So he hasn't turned a pedal the last couple of years?

Yeah, a few decent ones, and I fully expect him to lay down a marker at the weekend, I believe he has the ability.

FFS lets wait to see what actually happens in Flanders.

Did none of you learn your lessons from when you predicted Froome would win Prato de Tivo by minutes and when he actually does fly away from everyone but its not minutes, his performance starts to look normal.

And this x10000, please stop the ridiculous speculation before the race has even happened, lets just watch the cycling and see what will be. Ahmen.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It was 42 tests for Menchov in the reference you're thinking of, but it was his published number of tests for 2009. 21 for blood, 21 for urine. At least 10 of the 42 will have come at the Giro since he led for 9 days and also won a stage when not leading, but that still leaves 32 tests elsewhere in the season.

Why would it be 10 for leading 9 days? Does the leader get tested every day? Ryder was leader for 3 days before he was tested.

 

[Boeing]

With the number of elite riders opting for The Giro its clear they know something we don't

 

[M Sport]

By all means, be my guest. I'll shoot down any criticism that you come up with just as I have done before, and you'll end up with your pants down around your ankles just like the Science of Sports guys, etc.

(Moral of the story: don't bring a knife to a gun fight. )

Pffft late coming back at you but I see you have already well and truly had your pants pulled down and been given one up the jack seat.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=20211

Not really much more to add is there.

 

[hiero2]

I have addressed every argument directed at me, including your latest, rather petty ones, regarding Nibali, Schleck, and the white jersey. What argument directed at me haven't I addressed?

It is obvious that the accusations against Sky are non-proportional on these forums. There are teams up to their ears in scandal, dubious histories, dubious directors, dubious riders (Saxo Bank and Katusha to name just two), but nary a word about them. In contrast, the only thing brought against Sky is their winning and links to Leinders, now severed. If a link to a dodgy doctor is sufficient condition for guilt, then every team would be guilty.

My position is perfectly consistent with the literature on judgment and decision-making, namely that most judgments are based on an intuitive emotion and is only later - in a post hoc manner - rationalized. The notion that people here are rational, non-invested arbitrators of evidence is naive. Sky-haters begin with a large prior (based on an intuitive emotion) and proceed via confirmation biases and discounting of disconfirming evidence.

Your replies - and many others - illustrate this clearly. Rather than respond in a reasonable way, you (and FGL) make personal attacks, post facile pictures, and evade any real consideration of evidence. That Sky is doping is dogma to you. Plain and simple. You have set your prior to 1 and nothing will make you revise it.

Actually, I found that MR above actually had some valid points in these arguments. BUT, he was also selectively ignoring some arguments, and I think he misinterpreted some other things.

Specifically - we do see a lot of Sky bashing, and a lot of emotional investment. However, he conflates emotion and intuition by using them together. They are not necessarily the same. Intuition is a judgement based on experience and emotion, but is neither rational, nor irrational. An emotional judgement is irrational. Intuitional judgements are based on experience and learning, but at such a low level of consciousness that they the reasoning may not be available to verbalize.

In the case of Sky, we have a lot of people in the forum who are making intuitional judgements, based on the behavior of Sky that is similar to the behavior of LA and USPS in the doping days. Sky is handling this poorly, and their denials are even consistent in style to the denials of USPS.

In my thinking, it isn't so much whether Sky is doping or not, but whether we choose to believe the suspicious behavior, performances, and events are signs of guilt, or signs of stupid PR thinking and relations.

We certainly have plenty of people using "bad" argumentation techniques. "Rhetological fallacies: errors and manipulation of rhetoric and logical thinking". A very nice little graphic there to illustrate these techniques. You'll also see a lot of these techniques used in RL to persuade other people of one thing or another. Sometimes successfully, which is why I put "bad" in quotes.

 

[The Hitch]

Thomas crash means we won't know if he could have followed Canc and Sagan.

Guess well have to wait 1 more week till Roubaix.

Feel free to make ridiculous predictions Hog and co about how Thomas will drop everyone and win by 10 minutes, or whatever

 

[the sceptic]

Cancellara looked strong today. Almost makes you wonder if he started doping again, or if he is still clean like in 2012. Guess well have to wait and see if he can beat Froome in the ITT's this year.

 

[lemoogle]

Doesn't look like Sagan can beat Cancellara yet. Half want sky to finally show up at roubaix and see what happens.

 

[roundabout]

Was it this thread or the Porte thread where I doubted that Thomas could have followed Cancellara?

Oh well.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Marginal gains:
* again, keep on your bike, it is a bikerace
* a little bit of stage knowledge, on the Pater you have to be in the first 40

Gerainst for Roubaix it seems.

 

[hrotha]

EBH still lacking endurance. And I'm still inclined to think the classics squad, or most of it, is not part of the Tenerife Troop. Or the Kerrison Crew. Or the Leinders Lot. Whatever.

 

[maltiv]

0 Sky riders attacked during the race.

1 Sky rider finished in the top 20.

Wonder what happened, it's almost absurd that they'd be so bad after the consistent spring they've had.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Uh, meant to say Koppenberg. Three Duvelkes is one too much for me.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

0 Sky riders attacked during the race.

1 Sky rider finished in the top 20.

Wonder what happened, it's almost absurd that they'd be so bad after the consistent spring they've had.

I am not certain what this means
Not Pat McQuaid ‏@UCI_Overlord 1h
As a couple of little birdies told me yesterday, the @teamsky crew are a little under the weather. Not surprised by today's disappearance..

 

[Ferminal]

Everyone knows that bad bags are the only cause of team-wide illness.

 

[veganrob]

Cancellara looked strong today. Almost makes you wonder if he started doping again, or if he is still clean like in 2012. Guess well have to wait and see if he can beat Froome in the ITT's this year.

Whoa, hold back there. Just cause he kicked *** in the Ronde doesn't mean he can beat a Froomedog in ITT. That is getting rather ambitious, eh.

 

[thehog]

0 Sky riders attacked during the race.

1 Sky rider finished in the top 20.

Wonder what happened, it's almost absurd that they'd be so bad after the consistent spring they've had.

Because no amount of dope covers for poor tactics and lack of experience.

 

[leon7766]

Thats what you get with clean cycling teams like Sky .On any given day they can be beat .

 

[JimmyFingers]

EBH still lacking endurance. And I'm still inclined to think the classics squad, or most of it, is not part of the Tenerife Troop. Or the Kerrison Crew. Or the Leinders Lot. Whatever.

Phew, that's a relief

 

[MartinGT]

I am not certain what this means
Not Pat McQuaid ‏@UCI_Overlord 1h
As a couple of little birdies told me yesterday, the @teamsky crew are a little under the weather. Not surprised by today's disappearance..

Anyone know what this means yet?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Anyone know what this means yet?

dodgy steak?

 

[del1962]

Anyone know what this means yet?

Sounds like he is saying that he has been told there is some illness running through the classics team, which is the reason for their underperformance in the Tour of Flanders

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sounds like he is saying that he has been told there is some illness running through the classics team, which is the reason for their underperformance in the Tour of Flanders

Lets hope they didn't catch it from Cadel, or else it's at least twelve months of underperformance

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Sounds like he is saying that he has been told there is some illness running through the classics team, which is the reason for their underperformance in the Tour of Flanders

I think Martin was hoping for something a little more cryptic than that.