Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Taxus4a]

Oh please do tell me how Porte's performance in the dolomites on that giro was "not far" from Nibali's.

All depends what we consider to be far.

Zoncolan:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17391

Nibali was more far from Basso than Porte was from Nibali... if someone consider Nibali wasnt very far from Basso in Dolomites, he must say the same for Porte.

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17392

One minute in that hard MTT, for me is no very far.

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17395

This day yes, if you consider 5 minutes to be far, ok, but if you see that Porte was 14th in a day with Mortirolo, with people as Mollema, with Cunego behind, and the 18th was at almost 11 minutes, that means that there were big differences that day, so 5 and a half minutes it is not for me to be far away.

He was quite new in road cycling in that moment, and it was his first Big Tour, so his perfomance in the hardest mountains in the World, as Mortirolo or Zoncolan is very good IMO. He is not a pure climber.

It is normal that he had improve later, he is younger than Nibali and began much later, but.. I dont see that he climbs as Nibali today, Nibali is very strong, he is better in ITT than in hard mountain, and with Saxo he has done his best ITT in a grand Tour.

 

[Taxus4a]

If we're being strict there wasn't even a Dolomites stage? Kronplatz?

Well, if we are strict yes, but I consider for a cycling point of view, that Alps from Mortirolo to the East are all Dolomites.

Anyway, I meant, the final mountain of the Giro.

I consider that to be in a long breakaway as Aquila normaly is an extra effort for GC, but in this case I could no consider that, becouse it was a big group in the front, and behind at the end the leaders themselves had to work...so maybe despite 7th he would have been 10th in the Giro, but anyway it is an amazing place for a novel.

Porte was bringing from Australia to Italy and later sign up for Riis as an amazing powerfull rider with impressive potential.

In his first race in Italy.. his director said something as: why kind of joke is this? how this fat man can do something in this climb? and he won

 

[Libertine Seguros]

What is the purpose for hiring Leider if not for getting a good practice of doping? Remember Rasmussen never get caught and Wiggins and Froom suddenly resemble Rasmussen in a disturbing way.

The only other applications for the job were from Jesús Losa and Marcos Maynar?

 

[Coolair2970]

I hate to do this as I am a big fan of EBH, but according to NRK radio Eddy has been tested as much as 4 times in a week.

To me that implies that his values are suspicious... Agreed?

No its due to crazy rules. Nobidy knows when the others test and therefore they come running 15 minutes after each other.

Just the other day Taylor Phinney tweeted that he was tested by the UCI and 20 minutes later the USADA knocked on the door. He could have been so unlucky that WADA also wanted to test him that day.

 

[thehog]

No its due to crazy rules. Nobidy knows when the others test and therefore they come running 15 minutes after each other.

Just the other day Taylor Phinney tweeted that he was tested by the UCI and 20 minutes later the USADA knocked on the door. He could have been so unlucky that WADA also wanted to test him that day.

Getting them in a block is awesome. Then you know they're not coming again for a long while.

Target testing is just that.

If you get my drift.

 

[Taxus4a]

What is the purpose for hiring Leider if not for getting a good practice of doping? Remember Rasmussen never get caught and Wiggins and Froom suddenly resemble Rasmussen in a disturbing way.

They needed a good doctor, maybe for what happened in Spain to all the team, but anyay a doctor with experience in cyclyng, a good experience, even better a doctor who have worked with doping, becouse that is a good experince to understand what other team could done (and in his zero tolerance they dont want to say the truth, for that I dont understand zero tolerance, I understand it is difficul to say the public: we hire a doctor who doped, but I think there is not more experience in cycling that a doctor who doped) but the point is: if you wanted a doctor with experience in previous years in cycling, very difficult to find one good not involved in doping in his pastm difficult, and the market mmaybe wasnt so big).

So your questions has a simple answer.

Are you trying to say that the only good thing Leinders could do in to dope?

That cycling is just to dope? that a good doctor that not dope it is not important in a team?

Dont you think that would be interesting for a team to hire a doctor with experience in doping even if you are not interested in dope?

Do you think that a very good doctor without a big experience in cycling is more valuable for SKY?
I prefer JV way, we have this man, becouse is good, he doped, me too, and?? Maybe it is better if he dopped.

The only bad thing it is that this is not good for a zaro tolerance police. Leinders must be banned? for me yes... but if he can work in cycling, why dont hire him if he is good?

 

[Bexon30]

They needed a good doctor, maybe for what happened in Spain to all the team, but anyay a doctor with experience in cyclyng, a good experience, even better a doctor who have worked with doping, becouse that is a good experince to understand what other team could done (and in his zero tolerance they dont want to say the truth, for that I dont understand zero tolerance, I understand it is difficul to say the public: we hire a doctor who doped, but I think there is not more experience in cycling that a doctor who doped) but the point is: if you wanted a doctor with experience in previous years in cycling, very difficult to find one good not involved in doping in his pastm difficult, and the market mmaybe wasnt so big).

So your questions has a simple answer.

Are you trying to say that the only good thing Leinders could do in to dope?

That cycling is just to dope? that a good doctor that not dope it is not important in a team?

Dont you think that would be interesting for a team to hire a doctor with experience in doping even if you are not interested in dope?

Do you think that a very good doctor without a big experience in cycling is more valuable for SKY?
I prefer JV way, we have this man, becouse is good, he doped, me too, and?? Maybe it is better if he dopped.

The only bad thing it is that this is not good for a zaro tolerance police. Leinders must be banned? for me yes... but if he can work in cycling, why dont hire him if he is good?

I just don't get it.....

How can hiring Geert Leindeers be a good thing? He doped riders previously. His appointment is ridiculous and his departure even more so. Sky are knee deep in the mud on this regardless of ANY spin.

 

[maxmartin]

They needed a good doctor, maybe for what happened in Spain to all the team, but anyay a doctor with experience in cyclyng, a good experience, even better a doctor who have worked with doping, becouse that is a good experince to understand what other team could done (and in his zero tolerance they dont want to say the truth, for that I dont understand zero tolerance, I understand it is difficul to say the public: we hire a doctor who doped, but I think there is not more experience in cycling that a doctor who doped) but the point is: if you wanted a doctor with experience in previous years in cycling, very difficult to find one good not involved in doping in his pastm difficult, and the market mmaybe wasnt so big).

So your questions has a simple answer.

Are you trying to say that the only good thing Leinders could do in to dope?

That cycling is just to dope? that a good doctor that not dope it is not important in a team?

Dont you think that would be interesting for a team to hire a doctor with experience in doping even if you are not interested in dope?

Do you think that a very good doctor without a big experience in cycling is more valuable for SKY?
I prefer JV way, we have this man, becouse is good, he doped, me too, and?? Maybe it is better if he dopped.

The only bad thing it is that this is not good for a zaro tolerance police. Leinders must be banned? for me yes... but if he can work in cycling, why dont hire him if he is good?

Give me a break, yeah right the whole Britain does not have a single good sport doctor? The SKY has to hire a Leider who is related to almost Tour champion Rasmussen. Only idiots will buy those plausible explanations from SKY.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The only bad thing it is that this is not good for a zaro tolerance police. Leinders must be banned? for me yes... but if he can work in cycling, why dont hire him if he is good?

So why don't Sky hire Sinkewitz, say, or di Luca?

Because hiring them would be completely antithetical to their stated policy on doping. It's true that Leinders is less of a risk than, say, Ferrari or del Moral, as he's less well known to the public. But he's still a guy who has a link to doping and they're still a team who hung their stall out on "nobody who has any connection to doping".

Why should they have more leniency to pick doctors with a doping stench than they have with riders? If anything there should be LESS. After all, if a rider tests positive, you can spin it as a guy gone rogue, an outsider, or something along those lines and do a PR salvage job. A doctor has his hands on the whole team, so a shady doctor being exposed at the team calls the whole team into question.

And also, two of the mantras of Brailsford at British Cycling and subsequently at Sky have been "attention to detail" and "zero tolerance on doping". By hiring Geert Leinders, he proves that at least one of those statements is a lie.

 

[the sceptic]

I think sky should hire Dr Ferrari next. Who has more experience than him? what do you say Taxus

 

[webbie146]

They needed a good doctor, maybe for what happened in Spain to all the team, but anyay a doctor with experience in cyclyng, a good experience, even better a doctor who have worked with doping, becouse that is a good experince to understand what other team could done (and in his zero tolerance they dont want to say the truth, for that I dont understand zero tolerance, I understand it is difficul to say the public: we hire a doctor who doped, but I think there is not more experience in cycling that a doctor who doped) but the point is: if you wanted a doctor with experience in previous years in cycling, very difficult to find one good not involved in doping in his pastm difficult, and the market mmaybe wasnt so big).

So your questions has a simple answer.

Are you trying to say that the only good thing Leinders could do in to dope?

That cycling is just to dope? that a good doctor that not dope it is not important in a team?

Dont you think that would be interesting for a team to hire a doctor with experience in doping even if you are not interested in dope?

Do you think that a very good doctor without a big experience in cycling is more valuable for SKY?
I prefer JV way, we have this man, becouse is good, he doped, me too, and?? Maybe it is better if he dopped.

The only bad thing it is that this is not good for a zaro tolerance police. Leinders must be banned? for me yes... but if he can work in cycling, why dont hire him if he is good?

Do you actually find this 'explanation' to be believable yourself? -.-

 

[ferryman]

Do you actually find this 'explanation' to be believable yourself? -.-

Be suspicious of all posters who claim to have inside knowledge and use it to justify their prejudice against X or Y rider. Is this reality.. or just fantasy.

 

[del1962]

Be suspicious of all posters who claim to have inside knowledge and use it to justify their prejudice against X or Y rider. Is this reality.. or just fantasy.

Be even more suspicious of those who harp on constantly about Sky in a negetive manner, if you scratch beneath the surface most turn out to be a fanboy of a doper (just look at those who leap to Pantani's defence in the power data estimates thread)

 

[Taxus4a]

I think sky should hire Dr Ferrari next. Who has more experience than him? what do you say Taxus

He is not allowed to be in cycling. That is a good new.

I read Hamilton book, and he said Ferrari was a very good nutritionist and trainer...but I think SKy has already the best nutritionist and trainers

He was good not just for doping, and I am sure some cyclist visit him not for doping.


But anyway, if he was allowed, why not hire even if he is not going to dope?

Just for the zero tolerance motivated for people...(and it is a good reason to admire)

that is an issue of reputation, they put out for his bad reputation, not for doing bad things or good ones, after people know things about him, maybe even SKY didnt know, I have not investigated about that, but it doesnt matter.

His work in SKy was good, he was not doping, so, if people dont Know he was a dopper, why not keep? this is a bussines, with money,...

if you dont want to dope, so you dont dope, and as well you want people think you dont dope...so you act considering those things.

Could Brailsford lie about that? Maybe, I dont Know, I think just that he was not clear at the begining, more than he lied, but that´s not something that indicates doping in SKY, and less for sure.

If tomorrow Lofkvist say: There could be doping in SKY, for this reason, as some people did with US postal, I will take seriously into consideration, but would be just the opinion of one man and it depends the reason or proof he said. Anyway would be something to take into considerationm of course,

All this stories with Leinders, just becouse Leinders doped in the past, as the majority of the teams doctor, and just for that people saying: oh, they dope... I find that too simple, that is not to put a lot into consideration.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Be suspicious of all posters who claim to have inside knowledge and use it to justify their prejudice against X or Y rider. Is this reality.. or just fantasy.

Caught in a landslide

 

[thehog]

Be even more suspicious of those who harp on constantly about Sky in a negetive manner, if you scratch beneath the surface most turn out to be a fanboy of a doper (just look at those who leap to Pantani's defence in the power data estimates thread)

Jimmy said that Vayers work is just "pretty colours" and has no substance

and that he agrees with Krebs

Until he discovers that Krebs didn't even read the paper

Compelling stuff.

 

[del1962]

Jimmy said that Vayers work is just "pretty colours" and has no substance

and that he agrees with Krebs

Until he discovers that Krebs didn't even read the paper

Compelling stuff.

And the relevence to me of this is?

On Missus (Murphy I think) says you can spot a doper by them saying stupid things, then half the clinic you and half the mods must be dopers according to that theory

 

[Taxus4a]

I think sky should hire Dr Ferrari next. Who has more experience than him? what do you say Taxus

If you means Fuentes, that is another thing, he was a doper, not a good doctor (Hamilton said)

In an era of doing anyway Fuentes could be interesting even if you don want to dope, becouse he know a lot of thing of other riders and teams, an doctors.

But the issue is: all those doctors with relation in doping, must be banned for cycling.

Anyway, with that thing alone you dont resolve the problem. It must be with anothers


My explanation webbie is as believeble as others, but the point is not that, is that to hire Leinders even in a quite dark way, does not means doping.

Could be doping or a lot of things we dont know. I am quite sure Leinders was hire becouse he was very good, not for doping

And I have read hrotha explaining all this in other forum, I know his answer, but I say the same: that does not mean doping, even it is not a clear evidence of doping.

Maybe, and I am not sure, that SKy wasnt very clear and sincere in this. Why? I dont know.

 

[thehog]

And the relevence to me of this is?

On Missus (Murphy I think) says you can spot a doper by them saying stupid things, then half the clinic you and half the mods must be dopers according to that theory

I just want you to like me.

Is that too much to ask?

 

[Granville57]

Between this and the Froome thread there is an embarrassing amount of stupidity taking place. Seriously. I'd expect as much in the pro race sub-forum, but you people should know better.

To what do I refer? The painfully transparent and deliberate misspellings of Trollus4a. If you can't see it for what it is then perhaps the Internet in general is beyond your grasp.

I hate to spoil all the fun, but you are making fools of yourselves by falling for the false ignorance. Consider it a fantastic forum failure, if you will.

You're welcome.

 

[the sceptic]

Yeah i was wondering why someone from Spain would be such an annoying skybot. Seems like his spelling has improved lately as well

 

[ferryman]

Be even more suspicious of those who harp on constantly about Sky in a negetive manner, if you scratch beneath the surface most turn out to be a fanboy of a doper (just look at those who leap to Pantani's defence in the power data estimates thread)

Touche. But scratch away and you will find that no serious poster on here takes Pantani seriously. But, when Froome does the Alpe in 38 come back and remind us all about that nonsense.

 

[Taxus4a]

Yeah i was wondering why someone from Spain would be such an annoying skybot. Seems like his spelling has improved lately as well

If you refer to me, what means skybot?

 

[Escarabajo]

If you means Fuentes, that is another thing, he was a doper, not a good doctor (Hamilton said)

...
My explanation webbie is as believeble as others, but the point is not that, is that to hire Leinders even in a quite dark way, does not means doping.

....

You lost me there. With this statement you are showing that you are just trolling.

 

[Granville57]

Maybe Berzin will step in and end this idiocy.