Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Dr. Maserati]

Wats wrong with the Alps or Pyrenees?

The mountain ranges they use in the Tour not good enough?

Perhaps the fact that many mountain passes are closed or road inaccessible for lengthly parts of the year.

Didn't you say you went to Tenerife? If so, why did you go there - and not the Alps or Pyrenees?

 

[thehog]

Whats wrong with Tenerife,its a lovely place and great training spot. Doping is done by people not places

I don't know. Your telling the story. Looks a charming place in those desolate lava fields. Just charming.

 

[noddy69]

I don't know. Your telling the story. Looks a charming place in those desolate lava fields. Just charming.

Good to see you realise the particular charm of Tenerife although you do forget its diversity in mentioning only one aspect and forgetting its others,hardly a barren place at all. Now as to whose story this is.....well it depends, you stated something and I questioned it, so its not really a story at all. I'm on the same side if side is the right word yet you wont either own up to not having any proof of the ferrari relationship or are just winding people up, I cant decide.

 

[spetsa]

Name them. Then give me a good reason you would use them to train for racing where you will be at elevation !

Name them? I am not going to give you a geography lesson, but the Appalachains, Smokeys, Adirondacks, Catskills.....I could go on and on, and that is only in one small area of the Eastern US. The benefit of riding uphill for a 3000 ft elevation gain is pretty much self explanatory. If you don't understand that, you must not ride a bike.

 

[noddy69]

Name them? I am not going to give you a geography lesson, but the Appalachains, Smokeys, Adirondacks, Catskills.....I could go on and on, and that is only in one small area of the Eastern US. The benefit of riding uphill for a 3000 ft elevation gain is pretty much self explanatory. If you don't understand that, you must not ride a bike.

Right so your advice to a team going on a training camp would be to ride elevations of 3000ft and over somewhere that you wont be at altitude to train for races that you will be at altitude . Now thats not really sound advice and if you think really hard you might realise why

I thought you might get it when I asked first time but no you fell in. Now whats that about me not riding a bike and knowing nothing......smartarse

 

[spetsa]

Right so your advice to a team going on a training camp would be to ride elevations of 3000ft and over somewhere that you wont be at altitude to train for races that you will be at altitude . Now thats not really sound advice and if you think really hard you might realise why

I thought you might get it when I asked first time but no you fell in. Now whats that about me not riding a bike and knowing nothing......smartarse

Yeah, I get it. You are simply trolling for an argument, and I am the "smartarse". You are right. I "fell in". F*ck off.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I think Teide is a total red herring,in the bertagnolli affidavit Ferrari is recorded as saying not to use Tenerife, the authorities are aware and it is monitored. If Sky are working with Ferrari, as Rev Hoggo insists, then they wouldn't be training in Teide.

I have said Sky have left themselves open to lazy speculation. This is one, and people think they are PR masterminds

 

[martinvickers]

He was the sky lab rat. He was the guinea pig of the sky program.

That's a complete change of tack - you can't have it both ways, sorry. And there is simply no evidence of said 'lab rat' status...

 

[noddy69]

Yeah, I get it. You are simply trolling for an argument, and I am the "smartarse". You are right. I "fell in". F*ck off.

Im not trolling at all, it just makes sense. And it was you who got smart when I asked you to explain yourself so dont get shirty when you make a simple mistake in logic,it happens.Get over it and carry on,but troll I am not.

 

[thehog]

I think Teide is a total red herring,in the bertagnolli affidavit Ferrari is recorded as saying not to use Tenerife, the authorities are aware and it is monitored. If Sky are working with Ferrari, as Rev Hoggo insists, then they wouldn't be training in Teide.

I have said Sky have left themselves open to lazy speculation. This is one, and people think they are PR masterminds

Is this the same Ferrari guy who said he is innocent of doping cyclists?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Is this the same Ferrari guy who said he is innocent of doping cyclists?

He says that to the press, the stuff about Teide he said to a client, and he didn't know he was being recorded, as you well know.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

He says that to the press, the stuff about Teide he said to a client, and he didn't know he was being recorded, as you well know.

my theory: b-grade client, low level $5k client you dont want messing up your a-grade, well-funded circle. he wasn't saying, "don't go back". he was saying, "don't go".

 

[thehog]

He says that to the press, the stuff about Teide he said to a client, and he didn't know he was being recorded, as you well know.

Sure no problems.

What Ferrari says goes. I know.

He's da man.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

That's a complete change of tack - you can't have it both ways, sorry. And there is simply no evidence of said 'lab rat' status...

Interesting that noone has been able to provide any sort of answer to my original question about Froome. I did chuckle at the 'lab rat' nonsense though.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

eg: lance paid ferrari in 2009/2010 for training but there's no evidence. something changed, as banking no longer considered safe? too auditable?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sure no problems.

What Ferrari says goes. I know.

He's da man.

I realise it doesn't suit your 'narrative' but I was expecting you'd be less...limp

 

[Galic Ho]

eg: lance paid ferrari in 2009/2010 for training but there's no evidence. something changed, as banking no longer considered safe? too auditable?

Explain to me how one would go about obtaining any financial documents from a Swiss Bank? Those scum are the slipperiest weasels in world banking.

Swiss Banking is super safe. The problem is Federal Government agents who have the power to walk in and take records. Even then, you're banking on them not finding anything if the PTB have covered their tracks. That gets a little trickier when they are Italian. My guess is the Italian feds needed a lot of cross checking to get numbers on Ferrari. Armstrong is American, he no doubt had a lot of his assets in USA hands and institutions. A lot easier to get a hold of those than the Swiss ones.

There is a reason Ferrari set all his major business up in Switzerland and St Moritz has such a lovely reputation when it comes to cycling.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Explain to me how one would go about obtaining any financial documents from a Swiss Bank? Those scum are the slipperiest weasels in world banking.

Swiss Banking is super safe. The problem is Federal Government agents who have the power to walk in and take records. Even then, you're banking on them not finding anything if the PTB have covered their tracks. That gets a little trickier when they are Italian. My guess is the Italian feds needed a lot of cross checking to get numbers on Ferrari. Armstrong is American, he no doubt had a lot of his assets in USA hands and institutions. A lot easier to get a hold of those than the Swiss ones.

There is a reason Ferrari set all his major business up in Switzerland and St Moritz has such a lovely reputation when it comes to cycling.

check the affidavits. im not making it up.

 

[coinneach]

Something that is bothering me about Froome, his performance in the 2011 Vuelta was apparently down to him being doped up to the eyeballs due to a Sky doping programme.

Fair enough if that's what people wish to believe but maybe someone can explain why Sky were putting so much focus (and presumabbly expense) into getting Froome doped up when they clearly didn't rate him and had already planned to drop him from their squad at the end of the 2011 season? Clearly noone else on the Sky Vuelta squad was on the same programme as they were all completely useless apart from Froome and Wiggins.

Wiggins wasn't planning to ride the 11Vuelta: that only came a priority after his crash on the tour. I don't think Sky had made up their mind about Froome, but he had been ill/poorly performing for a while so wanted to see some reason to keep him. They sure saw it and yes, it was a surprise! But then, in the end, it was a surprise when Sky only came 2nd & 3rd and what happened to the guy who won it in 11, this year, BTW?

But, if one accepts your argument about it pointing to an individual programme rather than team, how do you explain his performance at Vuelta12? He gets the chance to be leader of super team....would you not do everything possible to take that chance, if he's hooked to some individual programme?

 

[thehog]

I realise it doesn't suit your 'narrative' but I was expecting you'd be less...limp

It was a joke because it not what Ferrari actually said.

If you spoke Italian you'd know what he meant.

Ferrari whilst a very calculating man is still issuing statements in regards to his innocence.

But don't let that stop you from using him as Sky's new PR man for their cleanness! LOL!

 

[taiwan]

One hypothesis for Froome: he was clean/relatively so, but went balls out, independently, for the 2011 Vuelta to save his job. Sky rehired him (interesting as if they let him get a contract elsewhere the team would be less conspicuous) and either let him into the enhanced A team or supervise his DIY program (deniable system operated with Leinders at Rabobank).

So he DIYd at that Vuelta, but in doing so raised his profile enough to merit support.

Should ask blackcat though who seems to have a special interest in the rider.

 

[del1962]

Name them? I am not going to give you a geography lesson, but the Appalachains, Smokeys, Adirondacks, Catskills.....I could go on and on, and that is only in one small area of the Eastern US. The benefit of riding uphill for a 3000 ft elevation gain is pretty much self explanatory. If you don't understand that, you must not ride a bike.

Grand Tours tend to do a certain amount of racing over 2000m passes, surely you need to do some training for this, which means spending some time on altitude training.

Some think it is not necessary for sea level stuff, but Grand Tours don't stay at sea level.

Now if you want somewhere warm, not to far from europe to train, you would go to Tenerife.

Yes dopers have trained in tenerife, but that is because pro-cyclists have trained there, some of which happened to be dopers.

The Tenerife thing is the biggest red herring I have read on these pages.

 

[taiwan]

"seal level"

 

[Tinman]

One hypothesis for Froome: he was clean/relatively so, but went balls out,...

Froome is all about his parasitic blood disease. THAT story needs mining.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Froome is all about his parasitic blood disease. THAT story needs mining.

Hypoxia induces EPO, no question. But once cleared up, that extra production of EPO by rights should go back to normal.

I read something earlier I need to follow up, that didn't make a lot of sense based on current EPO doping protocols. Something to do with repoxygen.

If only broken hearts lead to increased EPO