Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

Grand Tours tend to do a certain amount of racing over 2000m passes, surely you need to do some training for this, which means spending some time on altitude training.

Some think it is not necessary for sea level stuff, but Grand Tours don't stay at sea level.

Now if you want somewhere warm, not to far from europe to train, you would go to Tenerife.

Yes dopers have trained in tenerife, but that is because pro-cyclists have trained there, some of which happened to be dopers.

The Tenerife thing is the biggest red herring I have read on these pages.

You do realise that Tenerife is in Europe and part of the EU as a province of Spain?

It's not "close" to Europe because it is Europe.

Lotta smart guys popping on this forum.

 

[del1962]

That really depends whatyou mean by europe, politically yes, but not geographically, which is compltely irrelevent to the argument anyway

 

[thehog]

That really depends whatyou mean by europe, politically yes, but not geographically, which is compltely irrelevent to the argument anyway

Not really. Just adds to the mystic of its seclusion and confirms the difficult nature of access by those meddling drug testers.

Thank-you for the confirmation

 

[Tinman]

Hypoxia induces EPO, no question. But once cleared up, that extra production of EPO by rights should go back to normal.

I read something earlier I need to follow up, that didn't make a lot of sense based on current EPO doping protocols. Something to do with repoxygen.

If only broken hearts lead to increased EPO

Should. One would expect.

But what if a latent/dormant non active parasitic infection were to keep stimulating endogenous RBC production? Similar to a dead virus vaccine stimulating an immune response?

Any haematologist in the house?

More training beats broken hearts any time.

 

[blackcat]

One hypothesis for Froome: he was clean/relatively so, but went balls out, independently, for the 2011 Vuelta to save his job. Sky rehired him (interesting as if they let him get a contract elsewhere the team would be less conspicuous) and either let him into the enhanced A team or supervise his DIY program (deniable system operated with Leinders at Rabobank).

So he DIYd at that Vuelta, but in doing so raised his profile enough to merit support.

Should ask blackcat though who seems to have a special interest in the rider.

think he just took a poor program on Corti's Barloworld, John Robertson woulda managed him much better.

I wonder whats gonna happen with John Lee Augustyn. Guy had great talent. Now thrown off Sky on a team called Utensilnord-Named.

Lots of riders take the route of Jamie Burrow

 

[blackcat]

Froome is all about his parasitic blood disease. THAT story needs mining.

I see your cadence. I raise you bilharzia.

genius. Even Armstrong could not think'a' that!

 

[thehog]

I see your cadence. I raise you bilharzia.

genius. Even Armstrong could not think'a' that!

Froome is like a pre pubescent teenager when he's interviewed. He's so shy and awkward. It's not a good idea to give guys like him so much drugs.

The guy wasn't even racing at 19. He was just messing about on mountain bikes. It's been quite the turnaround.

College drop-out to Tour winner in one easy step.

 

[Tinman]

I see your cadence. I raise you bilharzia.

genius. Even Armstrong could not think'a' that!

No need for Motoman. Just a one trip to Africa. And a carefully managed anti-parasitic medication regime. To keep the system stimulated but not too much so, oops, sorry..., I mean treating the parasites.

This thread is developing. Only 7 months before the tour to bust this story. Fanboys no time for sleeping yet.

 

[thehog]

No need for Motoman. Just a one trip to Africa. And a carefully managed anti-parasitic medication regime. To keep the system stimulated but not too much so, oops, sorry..., I mean treating the parasites.

This thread is developing. Only 7 months before the tour to bust this story. Fanboys no time for sleeping yet.

When Froome smashed Fabs in the ITT at the Tour numbnuts here were saying "yes but Cancellera has been injured" not realizing Froome was supposedly off the bike for 8 weeks with his paralyzing blood diesese.

 

[thehog]

Doctors initially thought the symptoms pointed toward mononucleosis, but treatments failed to resolve his ongoing problems that left him tired and powerless on the bike. It went largely undiagnosed until he underwent extensive blood screening with a switch to Sky in 2010.

Doctors discovered the rather obscure parasitic infection and quickly prescribed treatments that kill just about everything in the body, similar to chemotherapy.

“It’s a very strong pill. It basically kills everything in your system, and hopefully at the same time, kills the [infection],” Froome said. “It’s something that I have to try to get rid of it. You cannot train when you’re taking that.”

Froome was knocked out of service in March and began building up for the Tour.

“The treatment is pretty rough stuff,” he said. “I have had a bit of a slow start to the season. There was more than a week when I could not even touch the bike. I started picking it up in time to be ready for the Tour.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...e-battles-parasite-media-cars-expelled_230162

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Froome is like a pre pubescent teenager when he's interviewed. He's so shy and awkward. It's not a good idea to give guys like him so much drugs.

The guy wasn't even racing at 19. He was just messing about on mountain bikes. It's been quite the turnaround.

College drop-out to Tour winner in one easy step.

I have to be honest, I missed the Tour win.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I think Teide is a total red herring,in the bertagnolli affidavit Ferrari is recorded as saying not to use Tenerife, the authorities are aware and it is monitored. If Sky are working with Ferrari, as Rev Hoggo insists, then they wouldn't be training in Teide.

I have said Sky have left themselves open to lazy speculation. This is one, and people think they are PR masterminds

I agree with all of this.

Betagnolli's conversation with Ferrari was on December 1st 2010.
That's two months after 34 arrests on Gran Canaria and Tenerife in
the clenbuterol sting operation.
Confirms that the islands were under surveillance.

Certainly more solid "evidence" to support this theory, than simply joining dots by name alone.

The point is: Ferrari could set up camp almost anywhere.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I agree with all of this.

Betagnolli's conversation with Ferrari was on December 1st 2010.
That's two months after 34 arrests on Gran Canaria and Tenerife in
the clenbuterol sting operation.
Confirms that the islands were under surveillance.

Certainly more solid "evidence" to support this theory, than simply joining dots by name alone.

The point is: Ferrari could set up camp almost anywhere.

But here's the rub - even after he was banned from working with people still didn't stop him - as the USADA evidence shows. He was still working in Italy.

Doesn't the Betagnolli conversation refer to riders who were currently under investigation ie Scarponi and Petacchi? So even though they were under investigation they were still carrying on before. He's still going around in his camper van, even though it was well known as his preferred method for meeting riders.

Also, the conversation takes place in 2010 - well there is nothing to say that by 2012 he might have concluded that it was no longer being watched.

To quote Martin Rees - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Also, the conversation takes place in 2010 - well there is nothing to say that by 2012 he might have concluded that it was no longer being watched.

While there is a chance he would be arrogant or stupid enopugh to return to the scene of a crime so soon after being caught there and saying not to go there, chances are far higher he would stay the hell away and find somewhere quieter.

Teide is a well used training location, isn't it? Sky weren't the only team to use it last season, Liquigas were there as well, and others. They of course 'officially' ended their relationship with ferrari in 2007 if memory serves, but if they, Sky and other teams are using it as a training location, why would the authorities stop monitoring it?

As I said a red herring, and ironically more indicative of Sky's innocence than guilt.

 

[thehog]

Stefano Ferrari

 

[JimmyFingers]

If anything, given the authorities were aware of these 'training camps' and the way Ferrari used them surely the sensible, logical choice would be to abandon that practise altogether and try an entirely fresh technique/tactic/place to do it in.

In fact if you are doing illegal acts then constant variation is the safest option: patterns get spotted, routines make you vulverable to observation and easy to catch. If I was Ferrari I wouldn't be doing the same thing more than a few times.

 

[thehog]

While there is a chance he would be arrogant or stupid enopugh to return to the scene of a crime so soon after being caught there and saying not to go there, chances are far higher he would stay the hell away and find somewhere quieter.

Teide is a well used training location, isn't it? Sky weren't the only team to use it last season, Liquigas were there as well, and others. They of course 'officially' ended their relationship with ferrari in 2007 if memory serves, but if they, Sky and other teams are using it as a training location, why would the authorities stop monitoring it?

As I said a red herring, and ironically more indicative of Sky's innocence than guilt.

Who would return?

Stefano runs the outward operation now.

You know that.

Michele doesn't travel. That's in the documents also but you forgot to read that bit didn't you as it doesn't fit in with the Sky narrative.

Besides he said Tiede was "scorched" as overused not a bad place to go.

Poor translation of Italian.

But I'm sure you're using the original text to translate. I'm sure you have the text, yes?

Besides its a wonderful day when the Sky fanboys are using Ferrari as the beacon of truth. You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I have to be honest, I missed the Tour win.

I think someone needs to mention it to Wiggins, I think he's under the impression he did

 

[Cycle Chic]

If anything, given the authorities were aware of these 'training camps' and the way Ferrari used them surely the sensible, logical choice would be to abandon that practise altogether and try an entirely fresh technique/tactic/place to do it in.

In fact if you are doing illegal acts then constant variation is the safest option: patterns get spotted, routines make you vulverable to observation and easy to catch. If I was Ferrari I wouldn't be doing the same thing more than a few times.

Oh and theres been a long list of dopers who have been caught hasn't there ???? they're TEFLON mate....dont you get it....how long did it take for Lance to come to justice ??? NO-ONES LOOKING !!

Do you think WADA have men hiding behind bushes half way up the climbs waiting to test Bradley's golden urine ? Italian authorities might...and they do get results...but they aint interested in busting SKY.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Who would return?

Stefano runs the outward operation now.

You know that.

Michele doesn't travel. That's in the documents also but you forgot to read that bit didn't you as it doesn't fit in with the Sky narrative.

Besides he said Tiede was "scorched" as overused not a bad place to go.

Poor translation of Italian.

But I'm sure you're using the original text to translate. I'm sure you have the text, yes?

Besides its a wonderful day when the Sky fanboys are using Ferrari as the beacon of truth. You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

Hardly using him as a beacon of truth, merely poking holes in your frequent assertion that Sky are working with Ferrari. If they were, it is unlikely they would be training in Teide, given what he said.

And I don't speak Italian, but I'll assume you're fluent.

 

[thehog]

Hardly using him as a beacon of truth, merely poking holes in your frequent assertion that Sky are working with Ferrari. If they were, it is unlikely they would be training in Teide, given what he said.

And I don't speak Italian, but I'll assume you're fluent.

What did he say? I'd be interested to see the original and translated text your using.

Of course you have this, don't you?

I mean you're quoting a source so you can provide a link or some form of documentary evidence?

Surely, yes? I'd like to know what the great Dr. Ferrari had to say.

 

[JimmyFingers]

What did he say? I'd be interested to see the original and translated text your using.

Of course you have this, don't you?

I mean you're quoting a source so you can provide a link or some form of documentary evidence?

Surely, yes? I'd like to know what the great Dr. Ferrari had to say.

Yawn.

I tell you what, why don't you go first

 

[Mellow Velo]

Sure. Let's play connect the dots.


Ferrari (master of no positives & drugs)
|
Rogers/Yates/Lance love (mentoring proven)
|
Tenerife
|
Inhumane power levels for weight ratio (A Ferrari speciality)
|
Wiggins.

Great post Hog.

Who would return?

Stefano runs the outward operation now.

You know that.

Michele doesn't travel. That's in the documents also but you forgot to read that bit didn't you as it doesn't fit in with the Sky narrative.

Besides he said Tiede was "scorched" as overused not a bad place to go.

Poor translation of Italian.

But I'm sure you're using the original text to translate. I'm sure you have the text, yes?

Besides its a wonderful day when the Sky fanboys are using Ferrari as the beacon of truth. You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

So, not such a great post, then, more of a flexible one.

The same thing for viable altitude options applies here.
As you say, Ferrari is unable to venture, so he's handed on the operation.
Aren't there safer alternatives to running a "camp", than an island that is clearly under the eye of the authorities?

Or are there no "safe" doping havens, these days.

Personally, I'd start to worry if a cycling team started to vacation in Jamaica, en masse.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

While there is a chance he would be arrogant or stupid enopugh to return to the scene of a crime so soon after being caught there and saying not to go there, chances are far higher he would stay the hell away and find somewhere quieter.

Teide is a well used training location, isn't it? Sky weren't the only team to use it last season, Liquigas were there as well, and others. They of course 'officially' ended their relationship with ferrari in 2007 if memory serves, but if they, Sky and other teams are using it as a training location, why would the authorities stop monitoring it?

As I said a red herring, and ironically more indicative of Sky's innocence than guilt.

Sky has an almost religious appeal to you doesn't it? Next you'll be telling me that you found an image of Wiggins in a piece of toast.

Lets be honest, if they produced a film featuring Wiggins shooting up with a syringe marked EPO you'd still deny that it was evidence or proof.

What I find ironic is the Skyfanboys getting very upset about Sky critics playing 'connect the dots' to suggest doping, but you are just as happy to play 'connect the dots' to 'prove' that Sky aren't doping, making assumption about what Ferrari would or would not do.

One rule for you, one rule for Sky critics.

Hypocrite much?

 

[thehog]

Yawn.

I tell you what, why don't you go first

I rest my case.

Next time you wish to quote provide a link to said supposed quote

Game, set, match Hog

That was easy!