Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[coinneach]

misdirected anger

Err this is the legendary Sky thread where everybody hates or agrees with each other. I'm reporting this post for being too nice.

I was reflecting today about why we get angry and who we direct it to.....

I noticed that after bad stuff came out about Lienders, I got angry at Hog posts

Then I noticed that when Wiggins finally spoke out, nearly everyone got angry at Parker

Then I thought about why people are so angry with Wiggins, when its really Lance and his legacy that is p*****g folk off.

Made me wonder if we sometimes direct out anger at someone when we're really feeling it towards someone else?

Just some random thoughts at spending a few hours away from the Clinic!

 

[Joachim]

It's possibly a mixture of reasons. Doubtless some vehemently believe what they say on both sides of the fence, to the point that they are unable to even countenance the opposing point of view. Of course some are here just to provoke anger from others, and try and get an angry retort that they can then report to the mods in the hope of a sanction. Then there are those who may have strong views, want to express them but manage to avoid getting drawn in to silliness.

 

[Grandillusion]

And now the UCIIC meeting has occurred. What are your thoughts?

The sport and the UCI are not so healthy.

Wow, I'm the last person I ever thought anyone would ask for my thoughts!

But here goes... I'm happy to hear that Otton and Tanni-Grey appear to be very unhappy with the UCI (to put it mildly). That's a very good sign, but my fear is that they have no real legal power (ie to demand rather than request), and as Otton suggested the delay is just a ploy by the UCI to get everything kicked into the long grass. It's a power struggle and the UCIIC has no real leverage.

Hope some clever person can fight the good fight and circumvent the UCI BS.

 

[ebandit]

join the dots

Wiggins "loves" Lance. He's "clean". Over "500" tests. Never tested positive.

You can join the dots.

His statements not mine.

Sorry.

Your hero is not all what he pretends to be.

Not a hog issue. But a Wiggins/Sky problem. I'm sure there PR will give it the perfect spin.

zeHog knows............just join the dots........it's brad.....sorry!

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[Mellow Velo]

At least Vince Nibs loves Sky. They're his number one team:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-regrets-not-joining-team-sky

Obviously realised they were going to become the class act of the pro peloton.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

At least Vince Nibs loves Sky. They're his number one team:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-regrets-not-joining-team-sky

Obviously realised they were going to become the class act of the pro peloton.

He is also a big Moser fan which, if I read the coded message correctly, means he is a big fan of blood doping, no?

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Sounds dodgy that a rider from Astana likes Sky, what more proof of Sky doping to people need?

 

[Joachim]

Proof? I think you'll find no proof is needed here. All you need is to be Australian and bitter

 

[martinvickers]

Proof? I think you'll find no proof is needed here. All you need is to be Australian and bitter

I feel a Clarke-Dawes sketch coming on....careful now

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

If Vicenzo had the same juice as the Vrrrrooooomster he would have won 3 GT's by know, he reckons.

That is why he went to Astana/Ferrari, he wants a level playing field.

 

[Benotti69]

If Vicenzo had the same juice as the Vrrrrooooomster he would have won 3 GT's by know, he reckons.

That is why he went to Astana/Ferrari, he wants a level playing field.

I think he wants to level the playing field while he does a Lance ya mean.

 

[The Hitch]

If Vicenzo had the same juice as the Vrrrrooooomster he would have won 3 GT's by know, he reckons.

That is why he went to Astana/Ferrari, he wants a level playing field.

The juice they have at Liquigas cant be that bad. Look at Ivan and Delfino.

 

[The Hitch]

Digression but itv have some new sport in 2013 advert and it ends in a pic of wiggins and it ends with ligget saying "yellow jersey to great Britain, this is just all too perfect"

 

[ebandit]

perfect

it ends with ligget saying "yellow jersey to great Britain, this is just all too perfect"

indeed it was promised to be perfect

lance exposed..............ligget humbled and forced to retire as promised

his employers would leap with joy to be able to get rid of the old fool
without paying out contracts

but phil renegades on the promise and is still here devaluing team sky and
other teams performances

 

[Pentacycle]

The juice they have at Liquigas cant be that bad. Look at Ivan and Delfino.

Exactly, at the time Wiggo was riding to 4th in the Tour Nibali rode one of his best GT's. On the deciding stages: 3rd on Verbier, 4th to Le Grand Bornand, and on Ventoux he only lost 20s to Schleck and Contador.

He beat Wiggins on every MTF or heavy mountain stage, so I wonder, has Wiggins improved from there or has Nibali become worse? I don't think Wiggins got worse, or that Nibali has been improving much over the years.

 

[Ferminal]

Nibali's program was probably already at maturity given the Ferrari link.

 

[del1962]

Exactly, at the time Wiggo was riding to 4th in the Tour Nibali rode one of his best GT's. On the deciding stages: 3rd on Verbier, 4th to Le Grand Bornand, and on Ventoux he only lost 20s to Schleck and Contador.

He beat Wiggins on every MTF or heavy mountain stage, so I wonder, has Wiggins improved from there or has Nibali become worse? I don't think Wiggins got worse, or that Nibali has been improving much over the years.

You must have missed stage 7, interestingly Wiggins was stronger in MTF in first week.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Then I thought about why people are so angry with Wiggins, when its really Lance and his legacy that is p*****g folk off.

Made me wonder if we sometimes direct out anger at someone when we're really feeling it towards someone else?

Don't just blame the athlete. The Pat and Hein are deeply involved in creating the scandals.

Per another thread that was being hijacked, here's a review of my crackpot theory now buried in this thread. Sky bought 2012's Grand Tour results from the UCI. UCI sold them to get a big boost in London 2012 games viewers in exchange for more IOC funding and to "grow cycling."

The evidence collected so far has been:
-IOC press release about funding results from viewership for a group of IOC sports that makes it obvious a group of IOC sports, including cycling, made record breaking loads of money. MartinVickers clarified some things, but we do not know what cycling's exact cut is. Not strong data one way or the other.
-In the history of Elite cycling, how many riders from the track went onto a Grand Tour podium? A few. But all practically contiguous with their track results. ex. Altig. Nothing like Wiggo's results. At all.
-Performance norms for Sky's grand tour squad were shattered for much of 2012. The very end of 2012, results returned to their historic norm.
As previously stated, I could be wrong. If I'm wrong, then it won't be the first time I was wrong about something. The point, as always, is to get to some truths about the UCI.

 

[bianchigirl]

You left out the infamous vid of pat, before race outcome was known, saying he would be at the winners, sorry, the team sky party post race

 

[coinneach]

Sky story please sponsers

Just a thought worth remembering:
"Whoever pays the piper calls the tune"

For all the heat on the Clinic, Sky remain untroubled, above it all.

Before they invested in Sky, the name News Cops was synonymous with corruption and deceit and worse.

Yet because of Sky's success (and lack of failure at testing) the image has been transformed, and the companies fortune, both in the UK & Italy, has been boosted.

Perhaps a message here for other potential sponsors wondering about investing in ZTP - procycling?

 

[xcleigh]

You left out the infamous vid of pat, before race outcome was known, saying he would be at the winners, sorry, the team sky party post race

I didn't see this video (would love to!). However as I understand it the quote was from maybe 2-3 days before the end of the tour? If he'd said it 2 weeks before the end then yes rather odd, but 2-3 days before the end I don't think you could really hold much stock by it. It may not have been known the final winner (or was it??) but with the race poised as it was I think most people would have got short odds on Wiggins going on to win the race. Couple of flat stages and a time trial to go. Not exactly Mystic Meg territory

 

[SundayRider]

DB - “There is this idea that if everyone tells the truth it will make it all better. No it won’t,” Brailsford, the Team Sky principal, said.

“Telling the truth doesn’t make it better. It’s about acting on the information that you find and doing something tangible with that information to make sure it doesn’t happen in the future.

“This idea of everyone telling the truth and it all goes into a pot, is it going to change anything? If it is about trying to identify all the individuals who were involved only to say, ‘OK you’re off the hook’, then what have you learned?”

If this isn't Omerta then I don't know what is.

 

[Joachim]

That is one interpretation. The more obvious one is that he is saying that with T&R and no defined outcome, every doper gets his doping history wiped clean with impunity(and therefore maintains his doped results) and then goes off and starts doping again.

He's right. Without a defined outcome it'll just start up again. He's not saying a defined outcome is impossible, he's not discounting T&R out of hand....he's just saying it needs an outcome.

My suggestion would be T&R with total immunity and then lifetime ban for any future transgressions.

 

[SundayRider]

He's clearly scared of what might come out! Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Joachim]

You gave yourself a whole minute to think about that.

Go back, give it a bit of thought and come back with a proper critique of my post, rather than just being dogmatic. At least I acknowledged that your theory is possible...come on, try to see that there is more than one possibility.