Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[hrotha]

To be fair to Riis, he had served a long apprenticeship by riding as a domestique for Fignon then seeking more for himself at Gewiss-Ballan. He then focused on the Tour, which saw him win after three years.

It's more simple than that, really: Riis signs for a top Italian team at the height of the EPO era and becomes a GT rider overnight as soon as he got on the program in 1993, winning the Tour 3 years later.

When you take the certainty of doping out of the picture, Riis is almost the same as Wiggins. He wasn't a world-class track cyclist, but other than that, they're perfectly parallel.

 

[martinvickers]

He may not have been lying, just that he was taken in by the vision at Sky, and of course with their stated policy he was naturally going to be the man for them, whereas at Garmin there would be competition for the leadership role on a greater level. He could have worded it better as it seemed a bit disrespectful of the talent at Garmin when it comes to GTs, however. It should certainly be borne in mind that Garmin won a GT before Sky did.

Absolutely true. But Sky won the Tour, which is the race they targeted, before Garmin.Sky promised him leadership and a genuine crack at the tour - and they did that.

One can argue Wiggins didn't show enough loyalty or respect to Garmin - after all millar and JV have done exactly that - but the Brodeal suggestion of aiming for classics is palpable and verifiable nonsense.

 

[BroDeal]

Absolutely true. But Sky won the Tour, which is the race they targeted, before Garmin.Sky promised him leadership and a genuine crack at the tour - and they did that.

One can argue Wiggins didn't show enough loyalty or respect to Garmin - after all millar and JV have done exactly that - but the Brodeal suggestion of aiming for classics is palpable and verifiable nonsense..

The only palpable nonsense here is your refusal to acknowledge that the 2010 Sky team was in no way built to win GTs and Wiggins assertion that he had to go to Sky to win the Tour is a flat out lie

 

[martinvickers]

The only palpable nonsense here is your refusal to acknowledge that the 2010 Sky team was in no way built to win GTs and Wiggins assertion that he had to go to Sky to win the Tour is a flat out lie. Your continued dishonesty about his issue shows that you have no more integrity than Wiggins and cannot be trusted to objectively look at this issue or any other involving Sky.

Read the timeline for yourself

Aim No. 1 : Win the Tour

And on that pretty bl**dy conclusive note, I will end interactions with yourself. I don't waste my time on dishonest or abusive posters in here any more.

Ignore buttons. Wonderful things.

 

[sittingbison]

ok you two settle down on the personal abuse

 

[martinvickers]

ok you two settle down on the personal abuse

Already have. Delights of an ignore button, you see.

 

[BroDeal]

Read the timeline for yourself

Aim No. 1 : Win the Tour

And on that pretty bl**dy conclusive note, I will end interactions with yourself. I don't waste my time on dishonest or abusive posters in here any more.

Again your abject dishonesty and low integrity shows through as you continue to refuse to deal with the roster that Sky hired for 2010, the roster that uncategorically shows that Wiggins was lying about his reasons for moving to Sky. It goes to show the weakness of your position that all you can post is Sky PR that was not backed up with contracts to riders who could provide a Tour winning team. Instead of dealing with the issue, you go crying home with your hands over your ears, shouting, "Na na na na!" Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

After heaping abuse on other posters that disagree with your sponge-like gullibility about Team Sky, you cannot take being treated in the same manner. Try sacking up some time.

 

[martinvickers]

No worries, SB. Ignore function in operation anyway.

The link to the article where Sky clearly set out their Goal, and their timeframe for doing it


Here

Of course, they could in reality have been targeting the Fleche Walloone, and all this tour nonsense was just a big Wiggins fib. Decent of him to go and win it, just to help Sky keep the subterfuge going, mind, till they've conquored the belgian roads...

 

[BroDeal]

No worries, SB. Ignore function in operation anyway.

The link to the article where Sky clearly set out their Goal, and their timeframe for doing it


Here

Of course, they could in reality have been targeting the Fleche Walloone, and all this tour nonsense was just a big Wiggins fib. Decent of him to go and win it, just to help Sky keep the subterfuge going, mind, till they've conquored the belgian roads...

And you continue to dodge the fact that the 2010 Sky team was in no way built to win the Tour, which goes to show that Wiggins stated reasons for having to leave Garmin were a lie.

 

[martinvickers]

Sorry, BroDeal, but the ignore function means I can't read your latest reply. I don't believe any further discussion will be useful in any event.

 

[northstar]

I can't believe that Brailsford approached Wiggins on a rest day in the middle of the 2009 Tour with an employment offer. Is this common practice in cycling? A business deal being made between a rider and an opposing team manager during a competition. Talk about unprofessional and disrespectful.

Oh to be a fly on the wall during that conversation after the Tour when Wiggins told JV he wanted out of his contract. Because of better career opportunities at the fledgling Team Sky. This after just finishing 4th at the Tour. I wonder what would have happened if Wiggins had honored his Garmin contract and remained with them for 2010. Any chance he could have improved that 4th place to a win?

In any event, Sky got what they wanted. But as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. Wiggins is a loose cannon and may be the undoing of Sky.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I can't believe that Brailsford approached Wiggins on a rest day in the middle of the 2009 Tour with an employment offer. Is this common practice in cycling? A business deal being made between a rider and an opposing team manager during a competition. Talk about unprofessional and disrespectful.

Oh to be a fly on the wall during that conversation after the Tour when Wiggins told JV he wanted out of his contract. Because of better career opportunities at Sky. This after just finishing 4th at the Tour. I wonder what would have happened if Wiggins had honored his Garmin contract and remained with them for 2010. Any chance he could have improved that 4th place to a win?

In any event, Sky got what they wanted. But as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. Wiggins is a loose cannon and may be the undoing of Sky.

According to Sky's financials from the year Wiggo joined up, they spent 2M on transfer fees. GBP, that is.
The video of JV saying he was upset when Brad left is filled with ... complacency. JV shows absolutely no emotion whatsoever. Given his tirades here, I don't accept it was due to a masking of said emotions, either.

 

[sittingbison]

JV made a few pithy comments the other day on twitter about wiggo, along the lines of he didnt appreciate him being best chums with Lance during the 1009 TdF with Lance whispering in his ear at every opportunity to leave Garmin and join Sky.

I have no doubt Lance would do this just to spite JV, not for wiggos benefit.

 

[coinneach]

I can't believe that Brailsford approached Wiggins on a rest day in the middle of the 2009 Tour with an employment offer. Is this common practice in cycling? A business deal being made between a rider and an opposing team manager during a competition. Talk about unprofessional and disrespectful.

Oh to be a fly on the wall during that conversation after the Tour when Wiggins told JV he wanted out of his contract. Because of better career opportunities at the fledgling Team Sky. This after just finishing 4th at the Tour. I wonder what would have happened if Wiggins had honored his Garmin contract and remained with them for 2010. Any chance he could have improved that 4th place to a win?

In any event, Sky got what they wanted. But as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. Wiggins is a loose cannon and may be the undoing of Sky.

Yes, common practice indeed. Its one of the few times in the year when the global market place that is pro-cycling has the chance.

Brailsford & Wiggins go back a very long way (as does Thomas). OK the team wan't immediately impressive, but a leader is THE most important part of the team.

British Cycling's success is built around getting the loose cannons to fire in the right direction.

 

[Netserk]

About the 2010 argument. Of the TdF '12 squad only Wiggins and EBH was with the team in 2010. (and Froome, but that wasn't really the same rider)

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Yes, common practice indeed. Its one of the few times in the year when the global market place that is pro-cycling has the chance.

Unlike in soccer in cycling a contract is a contract coinneach. Wiggins had a contract at Garmin for 2010 so the Brailsford approach was not done.

 

[coinneach]

Unlike in soccer in cycling a contract is a contract coinneach. Wiggins had a contract at Garmin for 2010 so the Brailsford approach was not done.

Not normal in cycling to have transfers between teams, certainly.
But the rest day in the tour is the main chance for the cyclists out of contract at the end of the year who desperately looking for a (hopefully better) team for next year.
And also for the DS to improve their team for next year.

Has been this way for a long time (was it even a contributory factor in Simpson's death, I seem to vaguely recall??)

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Not normal in cycling to have transfers between teams, certainly.
But the rest day in the tour is the main chance for the cyclists out of contract at the end of the year who desperately looking for a (hopefully better) team for next year.
And also for the DS to improve their team for next year.

Has been this way for a long time (was it even a contributory factor in Simpson's death, I seem to vaguely recall??)

Bolded the right part. Dunno about Simpson I must say.

Transfers from conti or pro-conti's to World Tour during the season is something different.

 

[coinneach]

Bolded the right part. Dunno about Simpson I must say.

Transfers from conti or pro-conti's to World Tour during the season is something different.

I've lent my Fortheringham book on Simpson away, so can't check it. My recollection is Simpson was meeting DS's on restday and was stressed, and knew he'd have to impress them..... I may have got this wrong.

(Appreciated you saying "Dunno" rather than "spouting rubbish")

 

[sittingbison]

the difference was that Wiggo was not out of contract, as Dear Wiggo says TeamSKY had to pay Garmin two million pounds transfer fee.

So to use soccerspeak parlance, Wiggo was "tapped up" after batting "come get me" eyes

 

[coinneach]

the difference was that Wiggo was not out of contract, as Dear Wiggo says TeamSKY had to pay Garmin two million pounds transfer fee.

So to use soccerspeak parlance, Wiggo was "tapped up" after batting "come get me" eyes

I think the £2M was for the team for the year....might have included other signings (when did Leinders leave Rabbobank? Only kidding!)

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I think the £2M was for the team for the year....might have included other signings (when did Leinders leave Rabbobank? Only kidding!)

Did SKY tap up [thanks SB, was looking for that English term] other riders as well? Really, those guys have no morals

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

The only palpable nonsense here is your refusal to acknowledge that the 2010 Sky team was in no way built to win GTs and Wiggins assertion that he had to go to Sky to win the Tour is a flat out lie

Wiggins was never in Sky's initial plans. Their initial plan was to make a mark in whatever races they could in 2010, whilst building to the Tour win by 2014. (Wiggo was never in the frame for this; which DS would be planning to win the Tour with a 34 year old "virgin"?) Sky really wanted Cav for their debut years, as this would have been a banker in terms of getting high profile wins. The 2010 roster reflects the lack of real GT ambitions at this time.

Wiggins' Tour success in 2009 forced Sky's hand. They didn't really have much choice but to try and sign Wiggo, as if they hadn't and he'd gone on to Tour success with another team, then the marketing value to Sky of the first British Tour winner would have been much reduced.

Thus, Wiggo found himself being offered Contador style remuneration without having earnt it on the road. No other team would have offered him as much (or been that interested in buying out his Garmin contract). He's no fool, and he accepted the contract. (£4m basic over 4 years.) I think we all would in his circumstances - the difference between what Sky were willing to pay him and what anyone else would have paid him for those 4 years was a life-changing amount of money.

Which brings us to why Wiggo gave the reasons that he did for joining Sky. The casual British Sporting Public - to whom his comments were aimed - does not like its sports stars to talk about things as vulgar as money, so he said what the audience wanted to hear, namely that it wasn't for the money. At the same time, however, the Public knew it was all about money, for they are not foolish, and plenty of interviews or general articles by tame journalists made it clear how much money was involved. Everyone knows the prime reason Wiggo moved to Sky was £££££££££££££££, but for cultural reasons in the home market, he can't be that explicit.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Did SKY tap up [thanks SB, was looking for that English term] other riders as well? Really, those guys have no morals

I think they may have bought out the final year of Ben Swift's contract with Katusha as well.

His Wiki site says that he signed a 2 year deal with Katusha in 2009, but only rode for 1 season before joining Sky.

 

[JimmyFingers]

The only palpable nonsense here is your refusal to acknowledge that the 2010 Sky team was in no way built to win GTs and Wiggins assertion that he had to go to Sky to win the Tour is a flat out lie

I have to ask one question: who cares? Have you ever been headhunted? Oops, sorry, stupid question, of course you haven't. If you had, and had two fairly equivalent employers offering you a similar role and support you'd know the decision usually boils down to money, if not perhaps which one is closer to home, which one is offering you biggest office, more holiday days, better pension etc etc. And while you are deciding you are going to make similar noises to both employers, and when you do decide you may a give a far loftier reason for your decision than one of them offered you a personal toilet.

But again, who cares why Wiggins left Garmin for Sky, or how Sky approached him, or how much they paid to break his contract. How is it relevant here? As relevant as him smoking on holiday? Or whether he grew up in Kilburn or Maida Vale? (Apparently it was actually Westminster). None of it makes him a doper, although it does provide extra opportunity to b!tch about him and Sky I suppose