Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[JimmyFingers]

So what that Armstrong got a 4

Armstrong was out of gc contention a week in and with the exception of 1 stage (where he was also poor), spent the entire rest of the tour deliberately losing time.

It was probably the closest Armstrong has come to clean in his entire 20 year cycling career.

I dont see how the fact that he has a 4 (which according to the guide, is a suspicious number anyway) in any way excuses wiggin's even more suspicious number.

Surely the fact it's source is the UCI is enough to debunk thoroughly. And the general consensus is that there is no way LA would return to the sport clean, and even if he did any reliable indicator of risk of doping would have his rating higher surely, given his history, even though that was anecdotal at the times.

 

[JimmyFingers]

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/brad-wiggins-blood-profile-3.pdf

Still, those spikes in Giro and Tour are a bit strange Jimmy.

I'm expert (although that does little to stop anyone around here) but those graphs look fairly consistent and stay within the same parameters. If anything his 2008 values are higher, and the Giro and TdF ones do taper.

Like I said, I'm no expert. Are those readings curious enough to warrant a tap on the shoulder, UCI-style?

 

[The Hitch]

And the general consensus is that there is no way LA would return to the sport clean, and even if he did any reliable indicator of risk of doping would have his rating higher surely, given his history, even though that was anecdotal at the times.

No one said he was clean - precisely why he got a 4 not a 0, what he was likely to have been however, is less likely to go full doping mode. When you enter stages with the aim of performing below rather than above your natural abilities it is pointless to charge up full time.

 

[D-Queued]

No one said he was clean - precisely why he got a 4 not a 0, what he was likely to have been however, is less likely to go full doping mode. When you enter stages with the aim of performing below rather than above your natural abilities it is pointless to charge up full time.

Never go full ***.

Dave.

 

[del1962]

Clasicmano Luigi scored zero on the index, George scored 1, and Schleck Senior 2 though

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Clearly not enough said, but if you're making reference to the UCI's 'risk index' number one it's from the UCI, number 2 the same index puts Armstrong at 4 and number 3 this is incredibly old news. And discussed already

I say I say I say.....sumpten is a miss and it AINT ..I say it AINT the risk index.

 

[maltiv]

Clasicmano Luigi scored zero on the index, George scored 1, and Schleck Senior 2 though

Scoring low doesn't prove you're clean, you could just have a very good program... but that doesn't mean that scoring high isn't a good indicator for someone being doped.

You can have close to normal values with doping, but having a high number as clean is a lot less likely

 

[The Hitch]

Clasicmano Luigi scored zero on the index, George scored 1, and Schleck Senior 2 though

Considering your statements that you are 90% sure your British heroes riding on Team Britain dont dope, one wonders why you are so quick to jump on Cancellara.

 

[Catwhoorg]

And of course the list was more of a targeted testing priority, which changed during the race.

Taking a single list and trying to draw inferences, is a hiding to nothing.

(of course this doesn't stop folks doing so)


Now if we ever could get hold of the same information for a whole season and see who was consistently in the higher ranges, that woudl be worth discussing.

 

[DirtyWorks]

And of course the list was more of a targeted testing priority, which changed during the race.

Do you have a reference for this? I don't know the specifics of this and I'm always on the lookout for some external information on the list process.

Taking a single list and trying to draw inferences, is a hiding to nothing.

Especially when it's the UCI itself ranking the riders. The hidden assumption is the list is based on unbiased information. The UCI is very biased and we now know they are hiding suspicious samples. Bottom line on this, Armstrong was a 4 when USADA retests Armstrong's 'comeback' samples they were clearly positive.

No one can rely on the bio-passport system. On paper, the system is good. In practice, the UCI is routing samples as they see fit. We can infer this through Ashenden's feud with the UCI.

Now if we ever could get hold of the same information for a whole season and see who was consistently in the higher ranges, that woudl be worth discussing.

It would tell you who the UCI likes and that's about it. I cannot stress enough how important Ashenden's feud with the UCI has been to uncovering how compromised the bio-passport system really is.

To keep this relevant to this thread, my claim is Sky's 2012 Grand Tour team samples were not routed anywhere in the APMU, just like Armstrong's. Froome-dog got away with a *miraculous* performance transformation thanks to the UCI in 2012. Not enough data to say what's going on in 2013.

 

[thehog]

And of course the list was more of a targeted testing priority, which changed during the race.

Taking a single list and trying to draw inferences, is a hiding to nothing.

(of course this doesn't stop folks doing so)


Now if we ever could get hold of the same information for a whole season and see who was consistently in the higher ranges, that woudl be worth discussing.

The AFLD just need to put 10 guys on Froome-dog. Test him 10 times and he'll glow like a Christmas tree and ring up at least 5-6 positive tests.

No need to test the rest of the field.

Maybe Wiggins and Porte.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The AFLD just need to put 10 guys on Froome-dog. Test him 10 times and he'll glow like a Christmas tree and ring up at least 5-6 positive tests.

No need to test the rest of the field.

Maybe Wiggins and Porte.

You are assuming the handling of those results would get sent to experts for further analysis. The phrase "never tested positive" is really, really appropriate for Froome.

 

[JimmyFingers]

The AFLD just need to put 10 guys on Froome-dog. Test him 10 times and he'll glow like a Christmas tree and ring up at least 5-6 positive tests.

No need to test the rest of the field.

Maybe Wiggins and Porte.

Excellent, just test three guys, that will solve it.

Are they the ones that haunt your dreams?

 

[del1962]

Considering your statements that you are 90% sure your British heroes riding on Team Britain dont dope, one wonders why you are so quick to jump on Cancellara.

Just what Tyler implied, why would he lie about it?

EDIT:

Until the Tyler statement, I had no probs with Fabian Cancellara, but if the guys at Rock Racing where right, then it causes a problem, perhaps they were wrong, but it is certainly stronger reason for suspicion than against any current Sky Rider.

 

[thehog]

Excellent, just test three guys, that will solve it.

Are they the ones that haunt your dreams?

I have nightmares about Froome-dog.

He will put 3 minutes into Contador in the ITT then drop him by a minute in the mountains.

If he wins by anything less than 10 minutes he didn't dope enough.

Froome-dawg will go full ***. Correction. He will go super-full *** come July.

I'm not sure the offical Skoda team-cars will be able to keep up.

Ricardo Froome!

 

[del1962]

I have nightmares about Froome-dog.

He will put 3 minutes into Contador in the ITT then drop him by a minute in the mountains.

If he wins by anything less than 10 minutes he didn't dope enough.

Froome-dawg will go full ***. Correction. He will go super-full *** come July.

I'm not sure the offical Skoda team-cars will be able to keep up.

Ricardo Froome!

Whatever Hoggie

 

[JimmyFingers]

I have nightmares about Froome-dog.

He will put 3 minutes into Contador in the ITT then drop him by a minute in the mountains.

If he wins by anything less than 10 minutes he didn't dope enough.

Froome-dawg will go full ***. Correction. He will go super-full *** come July.

I'm not sure the offical Skoda team-cars will be able to keep up.

Ricardo Froome!

I'm reminded of the predictions you made for him the Vuelta last year, so you'll forgive if I yawn

 

[del1962]

I'm reminded of the predictions you made for him the Vuelta last year, so you'll forgive if I yawn

Here is a lovely quote from Hoggie

http://http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=915607&postcount=339

The UCI should just give random mid ranked riders EPO to spice up the race.

Just to let you know his true values on doping

 

[thehog]

I'm reminded of the predictions you made for him the Vuelta last year, so you'll forgive if I yawn

This is not a prediction. It's wishful thinking!

In fact just park the AFLD anti--doping van out the front of the Sky hotel.

Even the mechanics will probably test positive.

 

[thehog]

Here is a lovely quote from Hoggie

http://http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=915607&postcount=339

Just to let you know his true values on doping

Wow you got me... what point are you making?

Doping is a phenomenal for recovery. Riding stage races is actually not that healthy. Doping assists the process.

Doping when done right, really works.

 

[del1962]

Wow you got me... what point are you making?

Doping is a phenomenal for recovery. Riding stage races is actually not that healthy. Doping assists the process.

Doping when done right, really works.

Hoggie, I think it is obvious to all you are a big fan of dopers, which seems to be why you don't like Sky, being clean (probably) and all that

 

[thehog]

Hoggie, I think it is obvious to all you are a big fan of dopers, which seems to be why you don't like Sky, being clean (probably) and all that

Well done. You got me.

 

[Ferminal]

If Froome is clean like all the others who the hell can we support now?

 

[hiero2]

Wow. Well, I'm glad you guys are behaving, more or less. You are taking sarcasm to such limits - your meanings are so mixed up at this point you each have stood on about 3 sides of the issue, I think. Amazing, positively amazing.

Snark on, gents.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Hoggie, I think it is obvious to all you are a big fan of dopers, which seems to be why you don't like Sky, being clean (probably) and all that

He's a fan of the continental's doping, they do it with such panache, just objects when he thinks the Brits are doing it. They dope ugly