Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

i was wondering about something . . . seems like the "human limit" argument is the one being used the most by the sky fans.

what happens when somebody beats sky? i mean they are at the limit of human ability so if some1 beats them they are over it and must be doping, right?

which means no1 can beat sky clean, right?

just trying to understand where "clean cycling" stands at the moment

Do we see an awakening here?

 

[Franklin]

Sky riders get beaten all the time

What a sharp comeback!

Now of course we could look at the facts of the flawless Wiggo 2012 campaign, but that's just a bit mean of me.. using facts to blow away your fantastic sharp comeback.

 

[harchibald]

i was wondering about something . . . seems like the "human limit" argument is the one being used the most by the sky fans.

what happens when somebody beats sky? i mean they are at the limit of human ability so if some1 beats them they are over it and must be doping, right?

which means no1 can beat sky clean, right?

just trying to understand where "clean cycling" stands at the moment

Anyone who remembers what Contador did the day after the rest day in last years Vuelta to the born again Rodriguez knows he's not going to take this lying down. It won't stop with tainted steak.

I anticipate an interesting scenario where Sky take it to the edge in the summer and Contador goes right over the top of them. It will be hilarious to watch.

I'm new here and don't want to read the previous 1,456 pages for answer but did anyone notice Lopez absolutely sandbagging yesterday. He could have buried Porte if that was the plan. Couldn't believe what i was watching.

 

[Bexon30]

What scares me the most(probably not the best choice of phrase) is now that Froomey got a taste of victory he will need to better it. Like a drug. All or nothing until its natural conclusion. In the end though it'll bring a tear to his eye and a need to get it off his chest(Rasmussen et al) where that leaves BC and Sir Dave is beyond me.
#rottensky

 

[cycladianpirate]

Seriously, help me out here, please!! Who are the clean riders that I should trust?? Someone who has "worked their way through the ranks" perhaps? Or is that just clever, incremental doping?

For the love of [insert deity of choice], just take it for what it is and, please, pretty please, don't pretend that your fanboyism doesn't entirely dictate the difference between a brilliant demonstration of talent and a blatant demonstration of egregious cheating.

By all means have a debate about it, but please, please don't pretend that your analysis is not hopelessly prejudiced by your like or dislike of the team/rider concerned.

 

[Netserk]

Seriously, help me out here, please!! Who are the clean riders that I should trust?? Someone who has "worked their way through the ranks" perhaps? Or is that just clever, incremental doping?

For the love of [insert deity of choice], just take it for what it is and, please, pretty please, don't pretend that your fanboyism doesn't entirely dictate the difference between a brilliant demonstration of talent and a blatant demonstration of egregious cheating.

By all means have a debate about it, but please, please don't pretend that your analysis is not hopelessly prejudiced by your like or dislike of the team/rider concerned.

So if I think everyone dopes (or almost everyone) and that includes all those that I cheer for, I am right?

 

[cycladianpirate]

So if I think everyone dopes (or almost everyone) and that includes all those that I cheer for, I am right?

I take it that you're active on a Cannondale thread, an AG2R thread, a Vacansoleil thread, etc, etc.

Or is it just that that winning.....sorry, the wrong team winning prompts you to post?

Look, I probably dislike Sky more than you do. I can't stand their "1960's concrete tower" approach to cycling. It's the double standards I object to.

 

[peterst6906]

So if I think everyone dopes (or almost everyone) and that includes all those that I cheer for, I am right?

I don't think that's what he meant, but applying the previous post to your question, I would think it would be - you may be right, but you also may be wrong so just enjoy it for what you get out of it and don't think your view is any better than anyone else's.

It's a kind of peacemaker opinion that promotes everyone sitting on the fence and not becoming too emotionally attached to the performances of their favourite riders.

I prefer to take a side personally. Makes for much more vigorous discussion.

 

[BroDeal]

The troll attack continues. Joachim is using BPC's patented tactic that he reserves for when everyone catches on that it is him: Figure that the account won't stay open much longer so relentlessly troll for as many hours as possible.

 

[Netserk]

I don't think that's what he meant, but applying the previous post to your question, I would think it would be - you may be right, but you also may be wrong so just enjoy it for what you get out of it and don't think your view is any better than anyone else's.

It's a kind of peacemaker opinion that promotes everyone sitting on the fence and not becoming too emotionally attached to the performances of their favourite riders.

I prefer to take a side personally. Makes for much more vigorous discussion.

I am very emotionally attached to some riders (read Boonen)

But I still think he dopes. Still love him.

 

[peterst6906]

I am very emotionally attached to some riders (read Boonen)

But I still think he dopes. Still love him.

I'm with you on Boonen. Gilbert also (though he doesn't seem to do the recreational drugs to the same extent). On the PEDs though, I think they are both there, but still love to watch them ride.

 

[The Hitch]

I take it that you're active on a Cannondale thread, an AG2R thread, a Vacansoleil thread, etc, etc.

Or is it just that that winning.....sorry, the wrong team winning prompts you to post?

Look, I probably dislike Sky more than you do. I can't stand their "1960's concrete tower" approach to cycling. It's the double standards I object to.

What double standards?

If you have quotes of people defending equally suspicious riders because they like them while attacking sky, why dont you share those with us.

 

[Netserk]

I take it that you're active on a Cannondale thread, an AG2R thread, a Vacansoleil thread, etc, etc.

Or is it just that that winning.....sorry, the wrong team winning prompts you to post?

Look, I probably dislike Sky more than you do. I can't stand their "1960's concrete tower" approach to cycling. It's the double standards I object to.

It takes two to a tango

But yes I do think Cannondale, AG2R and Vacans is filled with dope.

 

[Froome19]

i was wondering about something . . . seems like the "human limit" argument is the one being used the most by the sky fans.

what happens when somebody beats sky? i mean they are at the limit of human ability so if some1 beats them they are over it and must be doping, right?

which means no1 can beat sky clean, right?

just trying to understand where "clean cycling" stands at the moment

Who says that Sky have reached the limit of human ability?

What a sharp comeback!

Now of course we could look at the facts of the flawless Wiggo 2012 campaign, but that's just a bit mean of me.. using facts to blow away your fantastic sharp comeback.

Would Contador have beaten Wiggins in Paris-Nice?
He was nearly beaten by Westra, certainly would have been by Contador or even Nibali.

Would Contador have beaten Wiggins in the Tour? Maybe

Wiggins was clearly not in great climbing form in Romandie and I believe that many riders far from Contador's level could have beaten him.

Oh and Imo Contador could also have beaten Wiggins in the Dauphine.

It takes two to a tango

But yes I do think Cannondale, AG2R and Vacans is filled with dope.

OK...

I guess there is no point in convincing you about Sky if you are certain those teams dope as well.

 

[Froome19]

Im confused. Does the graph shows what Bailsford thought of his riders in 2011, or is it a fabrication?

The latter.

 

[Netserk]

OK...

I guess there is no point in convincing you about Sky if you are certain those teams dope as well.

I don't think they have team-wide doping programs, but I do think that more than half of the riders on those teams are doping.

 

[The Hitch]

The latter.

Fair enough. Where did you read that btw?

 

[The Hitch]

Oh and Imo Contador could also have beaten Wiggins in the Dauphine.

.

No he wouldnt. Contador never goes full peak at the Dauphine because then he wouldnt be able to go full peak in the Tour. Wiggins was able to go full peak in both.

 

[Froome19]

Fair enough. Where did you read that btw?

In the article where that graph came from.

 

[Netserk]

In the article where that graph came from.

That it was based on DB's rider analysis?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Do not understand why some are hating on Sky so much. They are playing to their strenghts as much as anyone else. Sure it is boring as hell to watch and that annoys me, but all this whining about Sky are so evil is kinda childish is it not?

 

[Netserk]

Do not understand why some are hating on Sky so much. They are playing to their strenghts as much as anyone else. Sure it is boring as hell to watch and that annoys me, but all this whining about Sky are so evil is kinda childish is it not?

How many are whining?

 

[The Hitch]

Do not understand why some are hating on Sky so much. They are playing to their strenghts as much as anyone else. Sure it is boring as hell to watch and that annoys me, but all this whining about Sky are so evil is kinda childish is it not?

You do know what Wiggins thinks about Vino right

 

[Miburo]

You do know what Wiggins thinks about Vino right

What????

 

[Ripper]

No he wouldnt. Contador never goes full peak at the Dauphine because then he wouldnt be able to go full peak in the Tour. Wiggins was able to go full peak in both.

95% Hitch, 95%. Wiggo raced at 95% allyear (his words )

... he might have 'peaked' for le Tour and the Olympics, but even then, who knows. That's what makes it all the more silly.