Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Arnout]

Is that not an explanation why they have to perform at the highest level all year round. Otherwise you'd see anomalies/unexplainable variations? You basically need to establish a different baseline?

Yes. It might also be a reason for limited racing as that makes life easier (less points on which blood values need to match the passport and likely longer time periods between checks, so more scope for tinkering a bit).

Keep in mind though, it is quite speculative.

 

[hrotha]

precisely. SKY can afford to get the best guys and look after/train them in the best way, virtually no expense spared, using all the technical knowledge gained from the GB track cycling years. its hardly surprising that they are capable of putting out a very strong performance on mountain stages and TTs, which is what they concentrate on the most as that is the way to win grand tours

I don't know how many times it's been said, but:

Froome was a nobody.
Porte was a top-20 or top-25 climber in 2010. I'll concede that in 2011 he couldn't be bothered, for the sake of the argument.
Rogers was a has-been.

They didn't "sign the best" and have them perform just a little better than before.

 

[Arnout]

What is it called ? What you seem to describe is a form of genetic doping ?

Not really, I think. The body is manipulated into thinking it needs more natural EPO than it would normally think, due to these pills. However, genes aren't changed or manipulated as such, but the effect is probably similar.

 

[Benotti69]

Here's Vaughter's reply to your question - said it today: "Give me Sky's payroll, and you'd see even greater dominance." The sentiment is exactly right and something that seems to be sorely missed on most people.

try answering the rest of the questions.

Also go back and look at the graph based on Brailsford's predictions. Where were Froome and Porte?

Look at EBH on that graph, yet he has done nothign at Sky. Similar to EPO, those with high natural HCTs did not benefit and lost out to those with low HCT who got the biggest % increase.

Seems Sky's high receptors are coming out on top.

 

[willbick]

I don't know how many times it's been said, but:

Froome was a nobody.
Porte was a top-20 or top-25 climber in 2010. I'll concede that in 2011 he couldn't be bothered, for the sake of the argument.
Rogers was a has-been.

They didn't "sign the best" and have them perform just a little better than before.

Froome had health issues before joining sky which seriously impaired his performances. Porte was a young 'top 20' climber - with a small improvement with sky no reason why he cant become a top 5-10 climber as he is now. Rogers was a former top class rider who was rejuvinated by joining a top team. bit silly to call him 'a has been' when he's only early 30s

 

[sartoris]

Froome had health issues before joining sky which seriously impaired his performances. Porte was a young 'top 20' climber - with a small improvement with sky no reason why he cant become a top 5-10 climber as he is now. Rogers was a former top class rider who was rejuvinated by joining a top team. bit silly to call him 'a has been' when he's only early 30s

You are joking, aren't you? Seriously.

 

[Benotti69]

You are joking, aren't you? Seriously.

It is trolling.

Edit: and is gone. Took a while.....

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

How long did this 'Joachim' last?

Not longer than Dave Brailsford.

 

[gerundium]

Seeing P-N first where we had kiryienka on the front doing a leadout from 50k and then followed up by a massive sky train wrecking the field in tirreno is really the proverbial straw for me. Not Normal.

just want to get that out there.

Despite a proven track record of doping in Classic / hardmen races i get this eerie feeling that they are far more honest races somehow.

 

[peterst6906]

...using all the technical knowledge gained from the GB track cycling years. its hardly surprising that they are capable of putting out a very strong performance on mountain stages and TTs, ...

What technical knowledge from the track program do you see as easily transferable to the road?

Further to that, what technical knowledge from a track program makes it hardly surprising that a team could put in strong performances in mountain stages?

There are no track programs in the World that focus on technical aspects of climbing in relation to preparing riders for track endurance or sprinting.

Info from the track could easily be applied to TT and for sprinters expected to finish races in bunch sprints, but I'd be interested in knowing what specific technical aspects from a track program are useful to road preparation.

 

[burning]

If they train all way to the San Remo, then It would be a really funny thing to watch. (And for cobbled stuff as well)

peterst6906, he's banned, he cant reply you anymore

 

[Pentacycle]

Its not about whether Froome has shown anything or not but about whether even Bailsford thought Froome was a donkey at first.

Of course not, he was one of the bright prospects to win the Tour the France for Great Britain with a clean team and staff. (together with PK and GT) Wiggins was a surprise for them as well. In the beginning of 2011 , however, I think they were starting to doubt his talent, until they discovered he had that blood parasite. They were about to dump him back in Afrika where they picked him up. But any sign of revival of his old talent would lead to Sky re-signing him, and apparently they were already expecting a lot from him at the Vuelta. He'd be the main dom for Wiggo, so they'd probably decided he could stay.

The more you look at this the more you actually start to believe Froome is pretty credible, at least compared to Wiggins.

 

[willbick]

What technical knowledge from the track program do you see as easily transferable to the road?

Further to that, what technical knowledge from a track program makes it hardly surprising that a team could put in strong performances in mountain stages?

There are no track programs in the World that focus on technical aspects of climbing in relation to preparing riders for track endurance or sprinting.

Info from the track could easily be applied to TT and for sprinters expected to finish races in bunch sprints, but I'd be interested in knowing what specific technical aspects from a track program are useful to road preparation.

its fair to say the track expertise is most useful for TT. i think Sky get their mountain skills from the high-altitude training in the winter in Tenerife which AFAIK other teams dont do but i may be wrong. Also it seems to me their tactics in the mountains are better. i mean its not rocket science but why the hell does contador keep attacking from several kms out??? its just dumb - of course he could do it in the 'old' days but he cant make it stick now for obvious reasons. Froome waited till about 1km out (as did Porte) before attacking. if contador had just sat on froome in todays stage im sure they wudda finished v close together

 

[the sceptic]

Of course not, he was one of the bright prospects to win the Tour the France for Great Britain with a clean team and staff. (together with PK and GT) Wiggins was a surprise for them as well. In the beginning of 2011 , however, I think they were starting to doubt his talent, until they discovered he had that blood parasite. They were about to dump him back in Afrika where they picked him up. But any sign of revival of his old talent would lead to Sky re-signing him, and apparently they were already expecting a lot from him at the Vuelta. He'd be the main dom for Wiggo, so they'd probably decided he could stay.

The more you look at this the more you actually start to believe Froome is pretty credible, at least compared to Wiggins.

not sure if serious...

 

[Ferminal]

I personally don't find Cataldo surprising, I expected a Giro top10 on the OPQS program last year. Didn't quite make it (but won the Italian TT Champs) and seems to have improved a bit here, doesn't bode well for OPQS in the classics.

 

[The Hitch]

Of course not, he was one of the bright prospects to win the Tour the France for Great Britain with a clean team and staff. .

10 characters

 

[Pentacycle]

not sure if serious...

It's all on Sky's news archives from August 2011: FROOME READY FOR ACTION

The Kenyan-born rider has demonstrated his climbing prowess at numerous times this season, with top 15 results at both the Vuelta a Castilla y Leon and the Tour de Romandie marking him out as a growing force in stage races.

With his form now approaching a peak once again, Froome is hoping to make an impact on the biggest race in Spain and build on what has been a strong campaign to date.

He said: “I feel like I’ve had a good season so far. I’ve learnt a ton about myself and my capabilities. I’ve had one or two problems with illness but we’ve treated them and the team have been really supportive. They are sorted and, touch wood, everything seems to be going in the right direction right now.

“I’ve done one Tour de France and two Giro d’Italia’s but this is my first appearance at the Vuelta. I’m really looking to the mountain stages and doing everything I can for Bradley to help him on the GC.

“Obviously if an opportunity presents itself to get a stage result them I’m all for it.”

He and the team thought he'd done a great season so far, showing great climbing talent. He was ready to peak for the Vuelta, and not solely as a domestique. So why would anyone doubt his performances?

 

[thehog]

I personally don't find Cataldo surprising, I expected a Giro top10 on the OPQS program last year. Didn't quite make it (but won the Italian TT Champs) and seems to have improved a bit here, doesn't bode well for OPQS in the classics.

Impressive that he probably joined Sky proper in December and in 3 months her has become Contador!

Didn't realise marginal gains can be applied so quickly.

 

[Benotti69]

Impressive that he probably joined Sky proper in December and in 3 months her has become Contador!

Didn't realise marginal gains can be applied so quickly.

Ah, but the pane e acqua in Tenerife has to be consumed to be believed.

 

[Ferminal]

Yeah, it's a bit early to tell, but after 2012 I expected him to be a leader for non-Contador stage races. Paris-Nice this year would have been a good course for him and yet it seems the most he can do is be a TTT motor right now.

He's mentioned in interviews that he was going to have leadership for the week-longs. So seems odd that he is not in decent form yet. Still got Pais Vasco (don't think Contador is going?)/Romandie but Dauphine will probably be practice for the Contador choo choo.

 

[willbick]

Impressive that he probably joined Sky proper in December and in 3 months her has become Contador!

Didn't realise marginal gains can be applied so quickly.

i dont know why u rate contador so highly. he is merely a high class climber who, when he was doping, was incredibly good

 

[Ferminal]

Just to be clear.
5.9w/kg is the new magic number.
Any performance under this is done without doping - is that your position?

And I think people normally look at all the statistics - including how performances are against their peers.

Anything >5.86 W/kg is a sub-40' Alpe d'Huez time.

Sastre or bust.

 

[mastersracer]

try answering the rest of the questions.

Also go back and look at the graph based on Brailsford's predictions. Where were Froome and Porte?

Look at EBH on that graph, yet he has done nothign at Sky. Similar to EPO, those with high natural HCTs did not benefit and lost out to those with low HCT who got the biggest % increase.

Seems Sky's high receptors are coming out on top.

The NFL invests millions of dollars in systems to assess talent. They begin tracking kids when they are 10. Their systems are orders of magnitude more sophisticated than cycling. Tom Brady was the 199th pick selected in the supplemental 6th round. Jamarcus Russell was picked #1. Predictions don't always work out - Brailsford was wrong. Big deal.

 

[thehog]

i dont know why u rate contador so highly. he is merely a high class climber who, when he was doping, was incredibly good

Hi Jocuam.

 

[peterst6906]

... but why the hell does contador keep attacking from several kms out??? its just dumb ...

Did you watch the stage?

He attacked first time just before the intermediate sprint in order to pick up the 3 second time bonus, which he won.

That put him 1 sec behind Froome on GC at that stage.

Nothing dumb about it. His later jump was just 2.5 km out on a mountain stage. There are plenty of examples of attacks sticking on climbs from that distance, particularly when 2 other top climbers jumped across and made it a group of 3.

That Froome still had a train of 3 riders assisting him at the start of that is the real surprise. To suggest that 3 domestics from Sky should be able to be beat the best climbers in the tour at that point in the race is a joke. No other team was able to do that.

Froome was still able to be dragged up to less than a km to go.

Froome having the legs left was no surprise. What was a surprise was the reason he was still able to have the legs left.

Not normal, at least not normal since USPS days, which is why it is so suspicious.