Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[leon7766]

Sigh.... Quoting from the first page's subtitle in all caps, just like the document.

"IN THE MATTER OF PROCEEDINGS BROUGHT UNDER THE ANTI-DOPING RULES OF BRITISH CYCLING FEDERATION...."

BC is the lead, UKAD follows. You don't even have to read past page one of the posted link to understand that.

Maybe you've bought the story the IOC/UCI keeps telling about how powerful the bio-passport really is and so on. That would lead you to believe all kinds of falsehoods based on those sort-of-true-if-I-don't-read-the-standards-but-really-not-actually-true-at-all claims. You wouldn't be the first person mislead.

Don't take my word for it. Go to WADA's site and read the standards. Read UKAD's standards practices. And then, go read the UCI's anti-doping rules. I think you'll come to the same conclusion.

Back to my original point of BC and Sky being intertwined such that the notion that BC will actually enforce some anti-doping rules on Sky would be naive. Not that the UCI would give them the opportunity anyway.

You seem to be a clue short of having a clue

 

[leon7766]

He's a great administrator but knows f all about bike racing.

.

Perhaps he should spend more time on forums like this where everyone knows much more than he does .Maybe then he would acheive something in his life like you yourself have who im sure must be leading the world in whatever career you have

 

[mikehammer67]

If that were the case they would have given Froomey the right gearset in Tirreno or have a different bike ready for him. Even Astana had...

Marginal gains; BS, just look at the roadbook.

i was hoping to make up a list for comparison

if 'marginal gains' is a hoax

that probably means sky isn't clean

 

[Catwhoorg]

How did US cycling's interference work out for Lance ?


UKADA would be very happy to take down a 'big name' in any sport if they had evidence.

I'm all for making doping a criminal offense in the UK to aid this.
(We know police work beats testing)

 

[thehog]

If that were the case they would have given Froomey the right gearset in Tirreno or have a different bike ready for him. Even Astana had...

Marginal gains; BS, just look at the roadbook.

No amount of drugs can make up for the Dawgs tactical ineptness.

Give Contador a rainy day the at Tour and he will break Froome.

 

[DirtyWorks]

You seem to be a clue short of having a clue

Please tell me where I've gone wrong. Details are important to any discussion, so please be specific in your corrections.

 

[Ferminal]

No amount of drugs can make up for the Dawgs tactical ineptness.

Give Contador a rainy day the at Tour and he will break Froome.

Is that why he doesn't dope?

 

[DirtyWorks]

How did US cycling's interference work out for Lance ?

UKADA would be very happy to take down a 'big name' in any sport if they had evidence.

I'm all for making doping a criminal offense in the UK to aid this.
(We know police work beats testing)

It fell apart for USAC/UCI because the riders went straight to USADA. Looking back, I wasn't specific about this. What I was describing was the "normal" process of sampling->testing->positive->UCI/BC->BC->UKAD. It doesn't work like that for riders the UCI prefers.

If riders went straight to UKADA, it would be great. We'd have another golden situation where the federation couldn't do a thing.

 

[JimmyFingers]

If that were the case they would have given Froomey the right gearset in Tirreno or have a different bike ready for him. Even Astana had...

Marginal gains; BS, just look at the roadbook.

Despite the skyborg yawns, they are actually human and make mistakes. Fallacious to hold up one error and use to cast into doubt their entire approach.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Another reason for Sky dominating everyone:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/thomas-wont-necessarily-lead-sky-in-key-flanders-warm-up

Knaven, a classics specialist himself, having won Paris-Roubaix in 2001, believes that it's the mentality within the team which is setting them apart.


"It is sometimes frustrating. Maybe for us people who have been in cycling a bit longer our skin is a bit thicker and used to it... But still, I don't think our riders are stronger than other riders, the level is the same but it's the way the race and the results they get. It's more about the team spirit that they have that makes our team so much better."

So take away points:
1. Knaven can win PR clean in 2001 - during the peak of the EPO doping era. Wiggins can't do a thing.
2. Team spirit makes Sky so much better than everyone else. Despite the fact team spirit was so bad at TdF 2012 Wiggins was thinking about going home, even though he was wearing yellow, coz he and Froome Dawg just don't get along.

Seems inconsistent.

 

[SundayRider]

Another reason for Sky dominating everyone:



So take away points:
1. Knaven can win PR clean in 2001 - during the peak of the EPO doping era. Wiggins can't do a thing.
2. Team spirit makes Sky so much better than everyone else. Despite the fact team spirit was so bad at TdF 2012 Wiggins was thinking about going home, even though he was wearing yellow, coz he and Froome Dawg just don't get along.

Seems inconsistent.

BW slated Froome in his book, great team spirit that.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Another reason for Sky dominating everyone:



So take away points:
1. Knaven can win PR clean in 2001 - during the peak of the EPO doping era. Wiggins can't do a thing.
2. Team spirit makes Sky so much better than everyone else. Despite the fact team spirit was so bad at TdF 2012 Wiggins was thinking about going home, even though he was wearing yellow, coz he and Froome Dawg just don't get along.

Seems inconsistent.

Neither Froome or Wiggins are part of the group he is referring to though. Seems irrelevant to the discussion here.

 

[Benotti69]

Neither Froome or Wiggins are part of the group he is referring to though. Seems irrelevant to the discussion here.

Sky thread and if the team leaders don't show team spirit is makes a lie of the whole idea of team spirit, but maybe Wiggin's is taking more leafs out of Armstrong, "there is no team in I".

 

[BlenJones2]

And even if it was relevant, that is one incident between two riders when there are nearly 30 riders in the team

 

[JimmyFingers]

Its clutching at straws: Knaven gives a soundbite about the team spirit and how that is a factor in success, but apparently this isn't the case because Froome and Wiggins don't get on. What does that prove? Oh yeah, they're doping...

Every coach I have ever heard when talking up their team talks about team spirit and how good it is and how important it is. Meh

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Despite the skyborg yawns, they are actually human and make mistakes. Fallacious to hold up one error and use to cast into doubt their entire approach.

Was this the first time Team Sky were overgeared? Angliru 2011? Or was the Dawg not overgeared but he just could not peddle the gear because of the cold/rainy conditions?

Given his pursuit towards the Gruppo Evans I think it was the wrong gearset.

When a team keeps rambling on about 'marginal gains' and mess up, well, you can fill in the blanks.

Knaven even lied to Brailsford, why should we believe him on 'teamspirit'? Is paintballing on mount Teide the new marginal gain?

 

[Benotti69]

Its clutching at straws: Knaven gives a soundbite about the team spirit and how that is a factor in success, but apparently this isn't the case because Froome and Wiggins don't get on. What does that prove? Oh yeah, they're doping...

Every coach I have ever heard when talking up their team talks about team spirit and how good it is and how important it is. Meh

It proves that Sky and their coaches are the same as every other team

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Was this the first time Team Sky were overgeared? Angliru 2011? Or was the Dawg not overgeared but he just could not peddle the gear because of the cold/rainy conditions?

Didn't Contador select the wrong gearing as well? There could have been many others that were not reported as well.

They made bad decisions and lost out because of it in the Vuelta 11. Not making Froome the protected rider was probably another.

 

[JimmyFingers]

It proves that Sky and their coaches are the same as every other team

Agreed. Something I say a lot.

 

[mikehammer67]

gaining an edge on your opposition with marginal gains automatically presupposes that you have already made all the 'significant gains' possible

i may be off the mark with this but
for example;
how does omitting to bring a team doctor on a recent training camp
and having a rider fall ill with food poisining tally with 'marginal gains'

 

[Benotti69]

Agreed. Something I say a lot.

And if we take that and look back at the sport and that nothing has changed, Sky are exactly like every other big rich team that came and went before.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

And if we take that and look back at the sport and that nothing has changed, Sky are exactly like every other big rich team that came and went before.

So explain me this. If Sky are doping why have other teams not followed suit? After all people have posted that their are all kinds of undetectable EPO like drugs out there. Why is no one else at the same level as a team?

 

[The Hitch]

Another reason for Sky dominating everyone:



So take away points:
1. Knaven can win PR clean in 2001 - during the peak of the EPO doping era. Wiggins can't do a thing.
2. Team spirit makes Sky so much better than everyone else. Despite the fact team spirit was so bad at TdF 2012 Wiggins was thinking about going home, even though he was wearing yellow, coz he and Froome Dawg just don't get along.

Seems inconsistent.

That is a good point.

 

[thehog]

So explain me this. If Sky are doping why have other teams not followed suit? After all people have posted that their are all kinds of undetectable EPO like drugs out there. Why is no one else at the same level as a team?

or

If Sky are clean and dominating they all must be clean?

Hallelujah! Cycling is 100% clean!

or

Sky are clean and everyone else is still doping.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

for example;
how does omitting to bring a team doctor on a recent training camp
and having a rider fall ill with food poisining tally with 'marginal gains'

And, he was the only rider suffering from it. Guess Eddy only ate the bad chicken.

Good point. Did Walsh mention any diarrea?

Didn't Contador select the wrong gearing as well? There could have been many others that were not reported as well.

They made bad decisions and lost out because of it in the Vuelta 11. Not making Froome the protected rider was probably another.

I havent heard Conti on marginal gains lately, let alone Bjarne.