Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[mastersracer]

Froome did poor in A because he wasnt training
He did poor in B because he was ill
He did poor in C because he had a knee injury
He did poor in D because he hadnt yet learnt when to output watts
He did poor in E because he handt learnt how to ride on European roads.
He did poor in F because the weather was too cold for him (yes a big argument in 2011 was that the Vuelta 35 degree weather was what got the best out of Froome, of course now he can fly away from eveyone in the cold and wet too)


And then one day Bailsford decides that he wants his team to dominate cycling, and all of a sudden, Froome has absolutely no problems and is the best rider in the world. And lying about Leinders and lying about how Sky were going to be open about their anti doping, were just honest mistakes from Bailsford.

And they all lived happily ever after.


I wish the people who believe these fairy tales all the best when they get into the real world. Others may see this type of innocence more as vulnerability

and may your self-loathing cynicism/nihilism serve you well. It must be hard living in a country that only has its past and cannot get its head around a program that actually wins anything - no wonder binge drinking is your country's #1 sport.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

and may your self-loathing cynicism/nihilism serve you well. It must be hard living in a country that only has its past and cannot get its head around a program that actually wins anything - no wonder binge drinking is your country's #1 sport.

I'd have thought football, speedway, handball, rally driving and volleyball all rank higher than binge drinking as competitive endeavours in Poland.

 

[The Hitch]

and may your self-loathing cynicism/nihilism serve you well. It must be hard living in a country that only has its past and cannot get its head around a program that actually wins anything - no wonder binge drinking is your country's #1 sport.

Don't we live in the same country

not quite sure which country you are talking about, but doesn't really matter, its a pretty dumb comment on all levels. Its exactly what Lance said about the French and what Spain said about the French.

Finally, almost no one on the cynic side of this discussion is even remotely patriotic. So to throw at us that we are bitter becuase our countries arent winning is pretty desperate and weak.

Maybe will10, JR Anton, Caruut, Libertine Seguros, Martin GT are also bitter that their country - GB, isnt winning anything and are taking it out on Sky.

And all those American posters, cant get their head around a winning mentality, what with their country only winning like 200 medals at the olympics.

 

[mastersracer]

Don't we live in the same country

not quite sure which country you are talking about, but doesn't really matter, its a pretty dumb comment on all levels. Its exactly what Lance said about the French and what Spain said about the French.

Finally, almost no one on the cynic side of this discussion is even remotely patriotic. So to throw at us that we are bitter becuase our countries arent winning is pretty desperate and weak.

Maybe will10, JR Anton, Caruut, Libertine Seguros, Martin GT are also bitter that their country - GB, isnt winning anything and are taking it out on Sky.

And all those American posters, cant get their head around a winning mentality, what with their country only winning like 200 medals at the olympics.

your location says London - I was referring to a sociological account of Britain - as broken, boozy, and morally sick - as per this commentary on the epidemic of binge drinking there and is relation to the loathing so many British here have for Sky. Wiggins is, ironically, a perfect example of self-loathing and boozy. Not his fault. It is the national condition.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/23/maciej-dakowicz-alcohol-cardiff

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

and may your self-loathing cynicism/nihilism serve you well. It must be hard living in a country that only has its past and cannot get its head around a program that actually wins anything - no wonder binge drinking is your country's #1 sport.

Is that you academical account or your downtownSouthCentralgangsterside, your last 2 posts that is?

#epic
#fail
#again

 

[The Hitch]

I'd have thought football, speedway, handball, rally driving and volleyball all rank higher than binge drinking as competitive endeavours in Poland.

Definately not rally driving or handball.

 

[roundabout]

Ski jumping?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The Hitch:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Biathlon, but only for girls since Sikora retired.

 

[The Hitch]

The Hitch:

?

10 characters

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The Hitch:

could be Sky's next GT winner, just add him to the Tenerife team.

Cobra, Viper and why not Eagle.

 

[mastersracer]

Is that you academical account or your downtownSouthCentralgangsterside, your last 2 posts that is?

#epic
#fail
#again

it's the sociological account - considering there is no real evidence regarding Sky - certainly nothing that would explain why they are so singled out on these forums (they did not even have the world #1 rider on their team last year and Britain was not the top nation in cycling).

1. British self-loathing
2. Continental antipathy for Britain - hatred of Britain for their perceived superiority, as typified in their opt out of the Euro.

As I've said all along, it's post hoc rationalization for irrational dislike of Sky.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Ski jumping?

Followed by the great Eddy the Eagle, Englands greatest Olympian of all time.

?

10 characters

a joke is not funny when it needs to be explained

it's the sociological account - considering there is no real evidence regarding Sky - certainly nothing that would explain why they are so singled out on these forums (they did not even have the world #1 rider on their team last year and Britain was not the top nation in cycling).

1. British self-loathing
2. Continental antipathy for Britain - hatred of Britain for their perceived superiority, as typified in their opt out of the Euro.

As I've said all along, it's post hoc rationalization for irrational dislike of Sky.

Utterly pathetic.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Or maybe it's to do with
1) the mountain of circumstancial evidence and the subsequent hunt for 'real' evidence
2) the fact that while they may not have the world number one on their team, that's more because J-Rod did different races, as Team Sky annihilated everything they entered
3) the races they annihilated included the Tour de France
4) they are annihilating races with guys who could barely finish with the grupetto once upon a time, whilst having circumstancial evidence, ties to dodgy doctors and so on, and shoving it down our throats that they are clean and this is a revolution for clean cycling, all whilst not doing the slightest thing to back their claims up.

There's really no need to bring patriotism and nationalism into the debate; Sky get the most attention because they are the dominant force in cycling right now, they are transforming riders into unstoppable behemoths, they make grandiose claims they don't back up about cleanliness and transparency, and because this is an English-language site they get more exposure than other teams would anyway, before the exaggerated coverage they get for being the most successful team.

 

[xcleigh]

2. Continental antipathy for Britain - hatred of Britain for their perceived superiority, as typified in their opt out of the Euro.

Perceived superiority? Perceived? But we are superior aren't we? (we even dope better than those jonny foreigners) That is a slight too far! We duel at dawn Sir! Apart from that thoroughly agree....

 

[The Hitch]

a joke is not funny when it needs to be explained.

You posted a picture of some guy with glasses and my username so id like to know what its about.

 

[del1962]

You posted a picture of some guy with glasses and my username so id like to know what its about.

Eddie the Eagle was a British Ski Jumber from the eighties who was so out of his depth in the competion, that he was a figure of fun. Just imagine a Pole palying in the premier league

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

You posted a picture of some guy with glasses and my username so id like to know what its about.

Okay, I will redeem myself.

First, we have the mastersracer aka professor being anything but gentlemanlike towards you with this:

and may your self-loathing cynicism/nihilism serve you well. It must be hard living in a country that only has its past and cannot get its head around a program that actually wins anything - no wonder binge drinking is your country's #1 sport.

followed by a funny remark by Libertine:

I'd have thought football, speedway, handball, rally driving and volleyball all rank higher than binge drinking as competitive endeavours in Poland.

Then roundabout makes a further funny remark in the same:

Ski jumping?

And then, me the joker, kicks in with a picture of Eddy the Eagle. See Del above for explanation on Eddie.

Note the bolded parts.

 

[mastersracer]

Or maybe it's to do with
1) the mountain of circumstancial evidence and the subsequent hunt for 'real' evidence
2) the fact that while they may not have the world number one on their team, that's more because J-Rod did different races, as Team Sky annihilated everything they entered
3) the races they annihilated included the Tour de France
4) they are annihilating races with guys who could barely finish with the grupetto once upon a time, whilst having circumstancial evidence, ties to dodgy doctors and so on, and shoving it down our throats that they are clean and this is a revolution for clean cycling, all whilst not doing the slightest thing to back their claims up.

There's really no need to bring patriotism and nationalism into the debate; Sky get the most attention because they are the dominant force in cycling right now, they are transforming riders into unstoppable behemoths, they make grandiose claims they don't back up about cleanliness and transparency, and because this is an English-language site they get more exposure than other teams would anyway, before the exaggerated coverage they get for being the most successful team.

regarding that mountain, I would be curious to know what could be accused of Sky that could not equally be accused of every other team.

Re transparency, how many other teams have an 'embedded' journalist with them - the most respected anti-doping journalist? How many other teams have severed all ties to any rider/staff member with doping in their past?

 

[del1962]

In the eyes of some molehills become mountains

 

[sartoris]

it's the sociological account - considering there is no real evidence regarding Sky - certainly nothing that would explain why they are so singled out on these forums (they did not even have the world #1 rider on their team last year and Britain was not the top nation in cycling).

1. British self-loathing
2. Continental antipathy for Britain - hatred of Britain for their perceived superiority, as typified in their opt out of the Euro.

As I've said all along, it's post hoc rationalization for irrational dislike of Sky.

You're a joke. A bad one actually. No offence intended.

 

[Benotti69]

regarding that mountain, I would be curious to know what could be accused of Sky that could not equally be accused of every other team.

Re transparency, how many other teams have an 'embedded' journalist with them - the most respected anti-doping journalist? How many other teams have severed all ties to any rider/staff member with doping in their past?

Walsh is not embedded. He has an open invitation. He not stuck with them for the season in a remote region of the world sharing 1 outdoor toilet.

This post resembles the crap PR Sky shovel up!

 

[The Hitch]

it's the sociological account - considering there is no real evidence regarding Sky - certainly nothing that would explain why they are so singled out on these forums (they did not even have the world #1 rider on their team last year and Britain was not the top nation in cycling).

Your posts are really bizzare. First of all you claim that rankings are more important than races, which no one else does, (did Rodriguez get any awards for cyclist of the year last year?).

I mean really. Winning the world Tour is bigger than winning the Tour de France?
So everyone unjustifiably went after Lance after all those years because he was never the number 1 ranked rider.


Then having put all the emphasis on end of season rankings you declare that Sky are unjustly picked on because Wiggins did not win the rider rankings and Britain did not win the Nation rankings.

Yet you deliberately leave out the 3rd of the 3 ranking systems - the Team one.
Which Sky did win very comfortably. Funny that eh. Must have forgotten about it.
How convenient that according to you only the things Sky didnt win matter

1. British self-loathing
2. Continental antipathy for Britain - hatred of Britain for their perceived superiority, as typified in their opt out of the Euro.

As I've said all along, it's post hoc rationalization for irrational dislike of Sky.

See, you come on here claiming to be a top scientist offering scientific expertise on biology.

And yet you have no problem throwing out absolute amateur hour pscyhological analysis of posters based on very vague ideas of what type of people they might be.

You totally ignore challenges made to your theories, and refuse to even look at the arguments against your side, instead opting to dissmiss people who present these alternative arguments as "conspiracy theorists" and offer pscychatric explanations about what flaws they must have to disagree with you on issues.

You then continue to make the same arguments without addressing the challenges made against them.

You also, rather than reach conclusions based on facts, are willing to mould facts to suit pre chosen conclusions, and pretty spectacularly at that.

Thats why i laughed at the idea you were an expert a few days ago.

The only scientists ive ever come accross with anything like these character traits are the ones got their degrees from Jerry Falwells Liberty University claiming that dinosaurs and humans lived together a few thousand years ago.

And even they show far more willingness to engage in debates with opposite viewpoints than dismiss them as jealous conspiracy theorists.

 

[The Hitch]

Eddie the Eagle was a British Ski Jumber from the eighties who was so out of his depth in the competion, that he was a figure of fun. Just imagine a Pole palying in the premier league

There was a Pole a few years ago playing in the premier league who was totally out of his depth. Name of rasiak.

since you're here though, maybe you missed my continuation to our discussion from yesterday

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1183688#post1183688

anything to add?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

regarding that mountain, I would be curious to know what could be accused of Sky that could not equally be accused of every other team.

Re transparency, how many other teams have an 'embedded' journalist with them - the most respected anti-doping journalist? How many other teams have severed all ties to any rider/staff member with doping in their past?

Sky get held to a higher standard because their own PR demands it of them. Lampre or Garmin or Movistar didn't come into the sport saying "nobody who's ever been involved in doping ever", so they don't look like hypocrites when they hire Petacchi, or Danielson, or Ventoso. And I don't know if you noticed, but we aren't seeing trains of 4 Lampre, or Garmin, or Movistar riders making the rest of the peloton look like total incompetents on climbs either.