Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Cyivel]

I'm British so of course I'll be clean.

 

[Benotti69]

I can become British if it means winning the TdF and I will say i am clean

 

[sniper]

i wonder, will race radio twitter a link to shane stokes' off the ball interview?

in october RR did twitter a link to a stokes article on parisotto's assessment of horner's data.

 

[DirtyWorks]

i wonder, will race radio twitter a link to shane stokes' off the ball interview?

in october RR did twitter a link to a stokes article on parisotto's assessment of horner's data.

Here it is!!!!
http://www.newstalk.ie/Can-cycling-be-trusted-now

There is a growing consensus that cycling is clean after decades of revelations.

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[thehog]

Here it is!!!!
http://www.newstalk.ie/Can-cycling-be-trusted-now

There is a growing consensus that cycling is clean after decades of revelations.

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I see a penis. And a banana. A piece of rope and a small man dressed as little bo peep.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I see a penis. And a banana. A piece of rope and a small man dressed as little bo peep.

Sigh. I guess ASCII "art" is well and truly dead.

There is a growing consensus that cycling is clean after decades of revelations.

Here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

 

[CycloAndy]

I have a question, why is their so much clinic-related hatred towards Sky but not towards other teams equally likely to be doping?

I really don't see how some people on these boards say they hate Sky for clinic reasons then outwardly support other teams equally likely of doping (e.g. Astana and Tinkoff bank). Lance Armstrong was rightly vilified for doping but the likes of Contador, Pantani, Indurain and Valverde are held in high regard, often by people who say they don't like Lance for clinic reasons.

Keep your healthy scepticism about doping in cycling/sport but please apply that scepticism logically and fairly and apply it equally to all teams you suspect to be doping!

 

[Pentacycle]

I have a question, why is their so much clinic-related hatred towards Sky but not towards other teams equally likely to be doping?

I really don't see how some people on these boards say they hate Sky for clinic reasons then outwardly support other teams equally likely of doping (e.g. Astana and Tinkoff bank). Lance Armstrong was rightly vilified for doping but the likes of Contador, Pantani, Indurain and Valverde are held in high regard, often by people who say they don't like Lance for clinic reasons.

Keep your healthy scepticism about doping in cycling/sport but please apply that scepticism logically and fairly and apply it equally to all teams you suspect to be doping!

Sky is a challenge for the real clinicians. The others are obvious dopers and not worthy of a discussion.

As long as you say you're überclean, but start winning Tours at the same time, you know you're going to get the heat. TdF success is immediately linked to use of forbidden substances; this is nothing new and there's no lack of evidence for it.

 

[CycloAndy]

Sky is a challenge for the real clinicians. The others are obvious dopers and not worthy of a discussion.

As long as you say you're überclean, but start winning Tours at the same time, you know you're going to get the heat. TdF success is immediately linked to use of forbidden substances; this is nothing new and there's no lack of evidence for it.

Thank you for a well reasoned response. I understand why people have more debate around Sky but it perplexes me that some people display such hatred towards Sky, stating clinic reasons, whilst supporting either proven dopers (Contador) or likely dopers (Nibali). Unless they believe that Nibali and Contador don't dope?

 

[Rollthedice]

Thank you for a well reasoned response. I understand why people have more debate around Sky but it perplexes me that some people display such hatred towards Sky, stating clinic reasons, whilst supporting either proven dopers (Contador) or likely dopers (Nibali). Unless they believe that Nibali and Contador don't dope?

If Contador, Astana and Movistar still dope and Froome, Porte and the Sky train are blowing these dopers to pieces, what would be your conclusion regarding Sky? While the whole bunch of proven dopers are putting lately performances within or even below what is considered normal and Vroom is hitting the brakes on Ventoux while climbing at Armstrong and Pantani levels, what would be the reasonable reaction?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Hate?

gimme a break. far too much energy required to hate anything, let alone a team of professional cyclists in another part of the world that have no impact on my life whatsoever.

Do I think they dope? Yep. Will I argue same? Yep.

Does this mean I hate them?

Dafuq are you smoking?

 

[sniper]

agree.
hate or hatred are no relevant variables here.

sky is such a nobrainer: if a team (almost effortlessly) wins two tdfs in row with two different riders, that team raises suspicions by definition.
only if you've been living in a cave in the past 20 years will you not be able to understand that.
add to that aso presentations, incredible transformations, lance times uphill, leinders, and the suspicion only increases. logically.
what do sky do to counter the suspicion?
angry rants at pressconferences, hiring a senile version of walsh, hollow promises of transparency, other usps rethorics.
The only remedy against suspicion would be 100% transparency. Sky make a mockery of that, however. Promising it, yes, delivering it, no way. They are the paragon of not putting your money where your mouth is.
Logically, the suspicions remain and will increase the longer Sky fail to provide transparency.

 

[The Hitch]

Cycloandy is asking a reasonable question.

He was given a very reasonable answer by pentacycle that covered most bases.

I agree with Cycloandy though that some people can be hypocritical about this at times. One reason I feel some may hate sky more is quite simply that they were fans of Contador and Nibali and thought those 2 would contest gts for a few more years yet and then sky totally out of the blue.

Another is that they are so dominant in that not only is their number 1 rider the best in the world but theyve also had the number 2 and 3 riders totally strangling all competition.

In the clinic a big reason is the fact that Wiggins was such a big lance defender back when the clinic was bringdownlance.org Obv he won't get forgiven for that, nor Brailsford for trying to copy us postal.

The biggest reason though is like what pentacycle said what sky say, perhaps particularly the offensive comments about how all the riders don't train as hard and dont want to win as much.

But of course there are others firmly against sky (hrotha, sniper) who hate contador just as much as they hate sky, others who hate neither, others (martinvickers, gooner, race radio) who may hate contador more.
Others who hated contador more when he was dominating and now hate sky when it's their turn.

There is no one simple answer so since the clinic is full of independent minds.

 

[sniper]

But of course there are others firmly against sky (hrotha, sniper) who hate contador just as much as they hate sky, others who hate neither, others (martinvickers, gooner, race radio) who may hate contador more.
Others who hated contador more when he was dominating and now hate sky when it's their turn.

i understand you're simplifying a bit here.
but just to be sure, again, i don't think hate or hatred is a variable here.

agreeing with dear wiggo, i can only counter the accusation of hating sky with a firm WTF? hating costs too much energy.
Hatred is something you carry along with you in daily life.
I don't carry any sky-related sentiments along with me in daily life. They mean zilk to me. You can't hate things that mean zilk to you.

As for Contador, i've actually come to like him.
He's no longer insulting my intelligence. Not putting himself on a high horse.
I disliked him in the past because he (and many other Spanish sport's performances) were insulting my intelligence. His contaminated meat story was also insulting to my intelligence.
But all that is now Schnee von gestern.
At present, the ones insulting my intelligence are mainly Sky/brailsfraud/walsh, and, to a slightly lesser extent, vaughters/garmin (and perhaps Cookson is starting to).
I don't appreciate such insults, but hatred is not a variable at all here. When i close this window, they are out of my system.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

i understand you're simplifying a bit here.
but just to be sure, again, i don't think hate or hatred is a variable here.

agreeing with dear wiggo, i can only counter the accusation of hating sky with a firm WTF? hating costs too much energy.
Hatred is something you carry along with you in daily life.
I don't carry any sky-related sentiments along with me in daily life. They mean zilk to me. You can't hate things that mean zilk to you.

As for Contador, i've actually come to like him.
He's no longer insulting my intelligence. Not putting himself on a high horse.
I disliked him in the past because he (and many other Spanish sport's performances) were insulting my intelligence. His contaminated meat story was also insulting to my intelligence.
But all that is now Schnee von gestern.
At present, the ones insulting my intelligence are mainly Sky/brailsfraud/walsh, and, to a slightly lesser extent, vaughters/garmin (and perhaps Cookson is starting to).
I don't appreciate such insults, but hatred is not a variable at all here. When i close this window, they are out of my system.

Very hard to avoid hate in modern sports. War, battle etc are worlds frequently used.

Personally dislike predictability and dominance in cycling. The dislike is borderline hateful.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

i understand you're simplifying a bit here.
but just to be sure, again, i don't think hate or hatred is a variable here.

agreeing with dear wiggo, i can only counter the accusation of hating sky with a firm WTF? hating costs too much energy.
Hatred is something you carry along with you in daily life.
I don't carry any sky-related sentiments along with me in daily life. They mean zilk to me. You can't hate things that mean zilk to you.

As for Contador, i've actually come to like him.
He's no longer insulting my intelligence. Not putting himself on a high horse.
I disliked him in the past because he (and many other Spanish sport's performances) were insulting my intelligence. His contaminated meat story was also insulting to my intelligence.
But all that is now Schnee von gestern.
At present, the ones insulting my intelligence are mainly Sky/brailsfraud/walsh, and, to a slightly lesser extent, vaughters/garmin (and perhaps Cookson is starting to).
I don't appreciate such insults, but hatred is not a variable at all here. When i close this window, they are out of my system.

Agree.

I certainly don't 'hate' Sky or any team. That's not to say I don't get incredibly frustrated by what teams profess to be 'true' through some bullsh*t narrative.

My frustration will manifest itself as anger, but not hatred. Mostly I just wish they'd STFU and stop treating fans as spoon-fed retards...

 

[Benotti69]

Agree.

I certainly don't 'hate' Sky or any team. That's not to say I don't get incredibly frustrated by what teams profess to be 'true' through some bullsh*t narrative.

My frustration will manifest itself as anger, but not hatred. Mostly I just wish they'd STFU and stop treating fans as spoon-fed retards...

I am in this category. Dont hate Sky but angry with their BS.

 

[CycloAndy]

Cycloandy is asking a reasonable question.

He was given a very reasonable answer by pentacycle that covered most bases.

I agree with Cycloandy though that some people can be hypocritical about this at times. One reason I feel some may hate sky more is quite simply that they were fans of Contador and Nibali and thought those 2 would contest gts for a few more years yet and then sky totally out of the blue.

Thank you. This reason seems the most likely, together with a dislike of Wiggins attitude and style of racing that seems to have been transferred rather unfairly on to Froome. Sky's cleaner than clean attitude does grate but it must be equally annoying for them to receive such a disproportionate amount of accusations.

To the others, I can only judge your feelings based on what you write and may have perceived hate that was merely a strong dislike. Either way my point, which may not be aimed at you personally anyway as was more a generic statement, still remains valid.

 

[The Hitch]

Well they also get a disproportionate amount of the glory. Thats how it works. Sky threads in the clinic where a lot shorter in 2010 and 11, and Contador ones a lot longer, when they were making up the numbers than in 2012 and 13 when they were winning the TDF by minutes and all the prep races.

 

[roundabout]

23 thousand posts in 18 months in this thread alone is probably more than all posts on Contador during nearly 5 years of this forum

 

[LaFlorecita]

23 thousand posts in 18 months in this thread alone is probably more than all posts on Contador during nearly 5 years of this forum

Because even Contador's biggest fans *ahem* have accepted he's a dirty cheater.

As long as he doesn't test positive again or something like that there is nothing to discuss anymore.

For team sky there obviously is.

 

[sniper]

23 thousand posts in 18 months in this thread alone is probably more than all posts on Contador during nearly 5 years of this forum

Contador was never going to ruin cycling.
Sky are.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

How..i thought that was JV's job?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

23 thousand posts in 18 months in this thread alone is probably more than all posts on Contador during nearly 5 years of this forum

To be fair, this is an English language forum.

Of course an English team, who even has a 'speak English' rule, is going to garner more attention here.

Couple that with anglo fans who are easily achieving levels of blind support that have only been seen by one other team/rider, and the number of posts is pretty understandable.

What's the post count on Armstrong threads? Does it matter? The point is we're speaking in English on an English language forum in a thread that is titled "Sky", an English team.

Start another contentious thread that can dissect the minutae of "foreign" teams, and fill it full of thousands of posts regarding that team, if it'll make you feel better...

 

[sniper]

How..i thought that was JV's job?

he and garmin have contributed, sure.

please understand that this is about perception rather than
reality. Of course we all know the "perception is reality" thing...

Questions?
Prentice