Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Dr. Maserati]

So, Kerrison is always walking like a bunny you are saying?

Quite frankly, I have no idea what you are saying.
Nor why you brought up Kerrison, as he is neither a soigneur or a medical Doctor.

 

[red_flanders]

can i post stupid things, from time to time, in threads of people i don't like just to bump them? and i mean, plain stupid things without any connection with the topic.

I think that horse left the barn a while ago.

 

[Eshnar]

Just a little reminder...
"You should be banned for...." is actually a very bad beginning for a post. Whatever the claim is.
And yes, probably not a great bump, as correctly noted by the immediate next poster. Bannable? I don't think so.

 

[SaxonUK]

The sky 1 3 yesterday is significant because one popular defense of sky has been the extremely flawed (flawed because it's not like ups for example did much in classics)- oh if they dope why don't they win the classics.

Well yesterday they won a little bit of something. Well see where that goes anyway.

Is that a defense of Sky not doping? I've not heard anyone use that before, I've always thought it was generally believed that they don't win the classics because they can't control the peloton like they can in the stage races.

Them winning in the classics does not prove or disprove that they are a team that dopes.

 

[pastronef]

well said by Dim about 5 OPQS riders in the break at KBK

If that had been Leinders boys in the break twitter would have imploded. But Jose's (Ibarguren) boys.. all good...

 

[zlev11]

actually that's not well said, at all. i don't think anybody thinks the OPQS riders are clean. the reason it didn't blow up on twitter is because nobody would defend them like Dim and all of the other major sky fanboys defend their riders.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

well said by Dim about 5 OPQS riders in the break at KBK

If that had been Leinders boys in the break twitter would have imploded. But Jose's (Ibarguren) boys.. all good...

When "you" operate from deep within the bunker everything appears to be black or white.

It would be pointless to defend the steppers as a clean team. Broad, often dominant performances in targeted races. And then the dope doctor. Its like turning on a switch.

However I do like it when their tactics fail, like at Omloop.

 

[The Hitch]

Them winning in the classics does not prove or disprove that they are a team that dopes.

Did anyone say it does? I think most minds are made up regardless what happens.

 

[The Hitch]

well said by Dim about 5 OPQS riders in the break at KBK

If that had been Leinders boys in the break twitter would have imploded. But Jose's (Ibarguren) boys.. all good...

Anyone wants to start a discussion on whether OPQS are doping, or try to say they aren't or translate statements from the Belgian press about how OPQS just proved cycling is clean by killing everyone with hard work, im game, same as with Sky.

 

[peloton]

actually that's not well said, at all. i don't think anybody thinks the OPQS riders are clean. the reason it didn't blow up on twitter is because nobody would defend them like Dim and all of the other major sky fanboys defend their riders.

This, pretty much.

And they don't insult fans with the ZTP, marginal gains nonsense.

 

[SaxonUK]

Did anyone say it does? I think most minds are made up regardless what happens.

You said it was significant...

Because them winning in the classics means they dope?

And if most minds are made up why is this thread 2400 pages long?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And if most minds are made up why is this thread 2400 pages long?

Because some people repeatedly ask questions (like yours) that have been asked and already answered previously, other people are prepared to answer questions asked previously (like this post), and yet other people are prepared to disagree with answers provided to questions already asked and answered previously.

And so on.

Ad infinitum.

 

[Digger]

According to Walsh's logic, it must further the case that they dope...because he said last year that one reason he thinks they are clean is because they were so weak in the classics....but I am sure it's the new handle bar tape

 

[maltiv]

The sky 1 3 yesterday is significant because one popular defense of sky has been the extremely flawed (flawed because it's not like ups for example did much in classics)- oh if they dope why don't they win the classics.

Well yesterday they won a little bit of something. Well see where that goes anyway.

In 2010, Flecha was 1st and EBH 6th, and I think everyone agrees that Sky anno 2010 were clean.

Let's not forget that they weren't exactly competing with Cancellara/Sagan/Boonen on saturday. I'm sure both Stannard and EBH will collapse in RVV.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

According to Walsh's logic, it must further the case that they dope...because he said last year that one reason he thinks they are clean is because they were so weak in the classics....but I am sure it's the new handle bar tape

wait what? strong in classics == doping indicator?

do you have a link for that little tidbit of Walsh logic?

 

[Netserk]

In 2010, Flecha was 1st and EBH 6th, and I think everyone agrees that Sky anno 2010 were clean.

 

[lllludo]

Stannard has always gone well in one day, hard races such as the Het Volk, last years classic season was a write off as the boffins thought they needed to go to tenerife to win.
There's no doubt that the Tour squad is dodgy. The classics squad I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt until I hear different.

Stannard always doing good in 1 day races ? Probably another British cycling legend like Chris Boardman never touched EPO.
Ok Stannard had a few good results such as 4th in Paris-Tours 2011, 6th in a hellish MSR 2013 and 3rd in a hellish KBK 2010 and that's it... so somehow it's no surprise he was in the top 10 saturday under the rain. But the victory and how he achieved it was more surprising considering his past best results in the major flandrian races: OHN:26th, RVV:50th, E3:27th, GW:35, PR:36.
To be fair Stannard is not so old (he'll turn 27 in May). And just like for Froomey, Stannard's hard work started to really pay-off and his results improved mid-2011 when he earned his 1st pro victory before the Vuelta.

In my opinion there isn't really a classic and a GT group at team SKY as EBH, Stannard, Knees and Thomas can do both and everybody goes to Tenerife. Apart from Wiggins who is older I'd rather distinguish a group of british riders (+Porte) living near Nice, most of them have been looked after by Sciandri, and that are the golden generation: Cav, Thomas, Froome, Stannard and the next ones to bloom: Kennaugh and Swift

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Stannard always doing good in 1 day races ? Probably another British cycling legend like Chris Boardman never touched EPO.
Ok Stannard had a few good results such as 4th in Paris-Tours 2011, 6th in a hellish MSR 2013 and 3rd in a hellish KBK 2010 and that's it... so somehow it's no surprise he was in the top 10 saturday under the rain. But the victory and how he achieved it was more surprising considering his past best results in the major flandrian races: OHN:26th, RVV:50th, E3:27th, GW:35, PR:36.
To be fair Stannard is not so old (he'll turn 27 in May). And just like for Froomey, Stannard's hard work started to really pay-off and his results improved mid-2011 when he earned his 1st pro victory before the Vuelta.

In my opinion there isn't really a classic and a GT group at team SKY as EBH, Stannard, Knees and Thomas can do both and everybody goes to Tenerife. Apart from Wiggins who is older I'd rather distinguish a group of british riders (+Porte) living near Nice, most of them have been looked after by Sciandri, and that are the golden generation: Cav, Thomas, Froome, Stannard and the next ones to bloom: Kennaugh and Swift

Not saying Stannard is clean, but often his job in the past was being workhorse and/or mid race attack option. Coupled with his "sprinting" capability this rarely leads to results. However most would agree he has always had a big "engine" which works very well in sh!tty conditions.

I definitely don't think he's in the same transformation league as Froome.

 

[maltiv]

You think Sky were doped in 2010? The entire team was completely **** (except from EBH) and Sky riders shot out the back each time there was a bump on the road. This was before they hired Leinders and while Froome still was nothing but a below-average domestique.

 

[lllludo]

Before March 2014 Stannard was sometimes a factor in the Flandrian classics but was fading away in the final kms due to his generous style of riding. This saturday it was the same vintage Stannard riding but the new thing was: he was probably the strongest, stronger than GVA, Terpstra and VanMarcke and was the the most resistant.
When he joined Sky he couldn't climb but last year in Milan-SanRemo he climbed the Poggio with Chavanel at the top of the race. During the Dauphiné he paced the peloton during 15km on Col de Vars and finished 2nd of the hilly stage of Eneco Tour Geraardsbergen behind Stybar.
So it's fair to say he's improved a lot as a rider since 2011. OK it's not comporable to Froomey's improvement, but the Froome-dawg is on a league of his own.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Before March 2014 Stannard was sometimes a factor in the Flandrian classics but was fading away in the final kms due to his generous style of riding. This saturday it was the same vintage Stannard riding but the new thing was: he was probably the strongest, stronger than GVA, Terpstra and VanMarcke and was the the most resistant.
When he joined Sky he couldn't climb but last year in Milan-SanRemo he climbed the Poggio with Chavanel at the top of the race. During the Dauphiné he paced the peloton during 15km on Col de Vars and finished 2nd of the hilly stage of Eneco Tour Geraardsbergen behind Stybar.
So it's fair to say he's improved a lot as a rider since 2011. OK it's not comporable to Froomey's improvement, but the Froome-dawg is on a league of his own.

Sure he has improved. You would expect that from a rider his age. Steady improvement. Team history:

2014 Team Sky (WT)
2013 Sky Procycling (WT)
2012 Sky Procycling (WT)
2011 Sky Procycling (WT)
2010 Sky Procycling (WT)
2009 ISD Cycling Team (PCT)
2008 Landbouwkrediet - Tönissteiner
2006 Van Vliet - EBH Advocaten (CT)

Like I said he could very well be doping, but I see nothing which brings us close to defcon 1.

CQ performance:

Sure if he starts to drop everybody in RVV and/or PR with 5-50km to go or beat Boonen etc in a sprint, I'm not going to argue for his potential cleanness.

 

[SaxonUK]

Sure he has improved. You would expect that from a rider his age. Steady improvement. Team history:

2014 Team Sky (WT)
2013 Sky Procycling (WT)
2012 Sky Procycling (WT)
2011 Sky Procycling (WT)
2010 Sky Procycling (WT)
2009 ISD Cycling Team (PCT)
2008 Landbouwkrediet - Tönissteiner
2006 Van Vliet - EBH Advocaten (CT)

Like I said he could very well be doping, but I see nothing which brings us close to defcon 1.

CQ performance:

Sure if he starts to drop everybody in RVV and/or PR with 5-50km to go or beat Boonen etc in a sprint, I'm not going to argue for his potential cleanness.

But you're missing an important factor - British riders aren't allowed to win and if they do they must be doping.

 

[Netserk]

You think Sky were doped in 2010? The entire team was completely **** (except from EBH) and Sky riders shot out the back each time there was a bump on the road. This was before they hired Leinders and while Froome still was nothing but a below-average domestique.

Imho there's a 95+% chance Flecha was doped in 2010.

 

[del1962]

But you're missing an important factor - British riders aren't allowed to win and if they do they must be doping.

Or take an Irish Passport

 

[bobbins]

You think Sky were doped in 2010? The entire team was completely **** (except from EBH) and Sky riders shot out the back each time there was a bump on the road. This was before they hired Leinders and while Froome still was nothing but a below-average domestique.

Remember, 2010 is the year that Dave B and the team had a rocket up their **** from Sky about poor performance. Their own team docs alleged that their poor showing was due to everyone else being on the gear. They hired Leinders apparently because he knew who was upto what. Draw your own conclusions.