Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Digger]

Bullsh!t. I work on the basis of reason, and cause and effect.



Again, Bullsh!t. Quite happy to accept witness testimony or incriminating documents, for example.



All of those are variations of "i don't know", no more, no less. If people actually took those attitudes were appropriate, rather than exclaiming with cast iron certainty, the bullsh!t metre in this place wouldn't be taking so much use.



I note the assumption is basically false. Whatever else Wiggins might have thought, suspected, or feared, He did not KNOW he was being cheated in 2009. WE also have the cannard, stated as fact, that somehow the 2009 field was one of the worst ever - basically, for no other reason I can see but one man's return.



Please don't abuse actual mathematics with this hocus pocus; it's banal.


Bullsh!t. I do NOT always view it as 50/50. You clearly don't understand my view. that;s not my problem .It's yours.



i'm sorry, but this makes f**k all sense to me, could you translate, please.


There you go with your fun fairy numbers again. How many career trackies - and that is what Wiggins was - since, say, the 70's have actually swapped onto the road permanantly? A handful of australians. Anyone else?



What EPO times did Wiggins match?

...........

 

[Ventoux Boar]

If only there was a sidebar thread where the Joan Collins fanclub could continue their courtship with MV while the rest of us get high on Bob Hope stories.

 

[martinvickers]

...........

I'm liking this new Jesuit you, offended by all this implied potty mouth

 

[the sceptic]

If only there was a sidebar thread where the Joan Collins fanclub could continue their courtship with MV while the rest of us get high on Bob Hope stories.

Its strange that this thread still generates so much discussion. In 2012, I can understand. But now, there is so much evidence that sky are doping. This thread should just be used to laugh at sky and to discuss the latest news instead of going around in circles all the time.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Its strange that this thread still generates so much discussion. In 2012, I can understand. But now, there is so much evidence that sky are doping. This thread should just be used to laugh at sky and to discuss the latest news instead of going around in circles all the time.

Agreed There's plenty to laugh at in this thread.

 

[martinvickers]

Agreed There's plenty to laugh at in this thread.

Did your mammy never tell you, it's a sin to mock the afflicted

 

[the sceptic]

Agreed There's plenty to laugh at in this thread.

Please stop trolling.

Twisting my post into meaning something it didnt is a clear violation of the forum rules.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Did your mammy never tell you, it's a sin to mock the afflicted

I happen to think it's a pity that the Commissariat patrol the boards purging the impure. The ratio of petty junk to insightful physiology/performance/detection analysis is way too high. Who'd want to contribute original ideas in this atmosphere?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I happen to think it's a pity that the Commissariat patrol the boards purging the impure. The ratio of petty junk to insightful physiology/performance/detection analysis is way too high. Who'd want to contribute original ideas in this atmosphere?

How is the review of those WADA docs going? That's good stuff to know if you want to have an informed discussion on doping.

 

[martinvickers]

Please stop trolling.

Twisting my post into meaning something it didnt is a clear violation of the forum rules.

RIP Irony.

No flowers please.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

How is the review of those WADA docs going? That's good stuff to know if you want to have an informed discussion on doping.

That's a fair point, and I don't pretend to have a particular interest in the nuts and bolts - which is not intended to disparage those who do, my foibles lie elsewhere. I was happy to take your word for it on an alternative number. I wasn't being deliberately ignorant. It seems like it's a tiny closely held number of people, or it's just the way business is done and I'm being helplessly naive (perfectly possible).

And I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm interested in the mechanics of the thing (understanding that nobody needs to know for sure), and wondering about the number of humans involved in the various scenarios.

Apologies. I should have responded in the thread. Careless.

 

[Cyivel]

I don't know if he's lying or telling the truth but I'm not going to take this as gospel and sniper, I can't understand how you give this a 70% approval just like that.

I do think he can be a bit more clear cut in what he said. At least give us the period in question with regards to Ellingworth, was it with Sky? was it before Sky? I'm genuinely interested to know more on this but just saying you know something doesn't quite cut it when taking it on board.

If you want to know what ITK's are, as MartinV has mentioned, they'll be out in force for the transfer season in the summer and you can guess what they'll be up to. I see them all the time and it's listening to thunder back and forth and it's why with Bobbins, this can't be taken seriously at this time.

indykalia is a great man.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It seems like it's a tiny closely held number of people, or it's just the way business is done and I'm being helplessly naive (perfectly possible).

Let's use the IOC as an example. During the Winter Games in Utah, anti-doping had EPO positives during the games. The head of the IOC was the guy who decided that the positive cases would not be opened.

What we know is UCI itself is the anti-doping authority for a vast majority of WT riders/events. We also know the UCI hasn't opened cases on positives before. We also know they don't seem to have any interest in Grand Tour anomalies.

I could go on, but I think you get my point. Someone, somewhere, decides to ignore cases. The current work flow for testing suggests that the sample are now anonymized so leaks like Contador's positive can't happen.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I do think he can be a bit more clear cut in what he said. At least give us the period in question with regards to Ellingworth, was it with Sky? was it before Sky? I'm genuinely interested to know more on this but just saying you know something doesn't quite cut it when taking it on board.

This is a thinly veiled demand for claims. History shows us that doping accusations are followed by the inevitable, incredible, doubts by the faithful and followed by personal attacks shortly thereafter.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks UKAD has some authority to do something because they don't. And even if they had the authority, it is clear they need an overwhelming case to make the sanction stick. BC and the UCI itself would likely fight UKAD.

UKAD's primary job is to perform tests and execute sanctions as directed by anti-doping authorities. They have almost no authority and certainly no budget to open anything less than a complete, perfectly defensible, case. If any of you would bother to read WADA's documents then you'd know this.

 

[oldcrank]

This is a thinly veiled demand for claims. History shows us that doping accusations are followed by the inevitable, incredible, doubts by the faithful and followed by personal attacks shortly thereafter.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks UKAD has some authority to do something because they don't. And even if they had the authority, it is clear they need an overwhelming case to make the sanction stick. BC and the UCI itself would likely fight UKAD.

UKAD's primary job is to perform tests and execute sanctions as directed by anti-doping authorities. They have almost no authority and certainly no budget to open anything less than a complete, perfectly defensible, case. If any of you would bother to read WADA's documents then you'd know this.

I don't think Mr. Bobbins got that memo, my friend.

 

[gooner]

indykalia is a great man.

LOL.

That's a stand out one.

 

[gooner]

This is a thinly veiled demand for claims. History shows us that doping accusations are followed by the inevitable, incredible, doubts by the faithful and followed by personal attacks shortly thereafter.

What personal attacks?

I don't take statements of people that claim to be "insiders" as gospel and that goes for all walks in sport even when it's not doping. Hence, why the ITK's on twitter and forums in reference to the transfer market in football are mentioned.

Hog once said Contador to Garmin was done. Bobbins for all I know might be legit in what he has to say(I don't know) but it's only fair that there are further questions to be asked.

 

[autologous]

Until it's on the banned list it isn't cheating, so until then the use of tramadol is a moot point.

F*k that attitude.

So if AICAR or an analogue was in use but not yet banned, that's OK with you? It wasn't cheating?

That really explains how you can spam this forum with "SKY's not cheating" and believe that you are being accurate. Clear as day, a re-affirmation of your blindness.

Yet you have the gall to call out the clinic for its partisan failings.

 

[Archibald]

I've butchered a Class A Iain Banks joke about a journalist making advances to Lachlan Murdoch: getting a column (cylindrical appendage) in the son (pun on soaraway Sun).

If it's any consolation, I got it.

What personal attacks?

I think he means of the accused riders, no?

F*k that attitude.

sounds a bit familiar to "never tested positive"



And being the SKY thread, how has this one from a Sky rider not been noticed or mentioned yet???

"Birger Hungerholdt told Verdens Gang that Boasson Hagen is happy at Team Sky but listed the criteria any new team has to offer his client. These included peace of mind, good teammates, an English speaking team, a good programme and the chance to ride for himself in some races."

 

[JimmyFingers]

F*k that attitude.

So if AICAR or an analogue was in use but not yet banned, that's OK with you? It wasn't cheating?

That really explains how you can spam this forum with "SKY's not cheating" and believe that you are being accurate. Clear as day, a re-affirmation of your blindness.

Yet you have the gall to call out the clinic for its partisan failings.

Typical partisan failing really, failing to read what I said, understand what I said, and understand the motives behind what I say. I give riders the benefit of the doubt, nothing more, nothing less, rather than the knee jerk condemnation based on anecdotes and half-truths and innuendo people like yourself lazily cling too.

There is a delicious irony in calling my posts spam when you make moronic ones like this.

But just so we're clear, anyone using legal painkillers is a cheat then? What about caffeine pills? They give a significant boost to performance late in the race.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Until it's on the banned list it isn't cheating, so until then the use of tramadol is a moot point. Like caffeine it is a drug that enhance performance, but at the moment it's not one that causes such an advantage or risk to health or a moral anathema that it is banned. Whether it should be or not if an entirely different discussion, and anecdotally it's use seems to be fairly rife throughout the peloton.

Just quoting the rest of my post, since it has been taken out of context and used as a strawman.

 

[Justinr]

And being the SKY thread, how has this one from a Sky rider not been noticed or mentioned yet???

"Birger Hungerholdt told Verdens Gang that Boasson Hagen is happy at Team Sky but listed the criteria any new team has to offer his client. These included peace of mind, good teammates, an English speaking team, a good programme and the chance to ride for himself in some races."

Maybe because it doesn't mean what you want it to mean ...

 

[bobbins]

From the original post.



An athlete winning a 'major event' becomes a major athlete, no?



Landis did it under his own name. Against the most famous and litigious cyclist in history. Neither of these remotely apply to you. But good try, bobbins.




Knud Jensen. Tom Simpson. Roger Rivíere. Vincente Lopez. Mar Demeyer. Johannes Draaijer. Joachim Halupczok. Marco Pantani. Jesus Monzano.

Adverse effects. Costs to the sports finances.

I don't know if he's lying or telling the truth but I'm not going to take this as gospel and sniper, I can't understand how you give this a 70% approval just like that.

I do think he can be a bit more clear cut in what he said. At least give us the period in question with regards to Ellingworth, was it with Sky? was it before Sky? I'm genuinely interested to know more on this but just saying you know something doesn't quite cut it when taking it on board.

If you want to know what ITK's are, as MartinV has mentioned, they'll be out in force for the transfer season in the summer and you can guess what they'll be up to. I see them all the time and it's listening to thunder back and forth and it's why with Bobbins, this can't be taken seriously at this time.

During his time at Ambrosio whilst racing in the UK. Can't be any more specific than that as it would link directly to individuals who have no wish to be named.

I find it hard to believe that no one here has any knowledge of the UK scene in the 90s and what used to go one there. There are rider(s) who used to rattle and have had at least one positive covered up who are now part of the establishment and seen as a victim of those nasty european / us dopers. Anyone with half a brain or an insight into UK racing in the 90s will know about this. It won't take long to find out either.

No DM received from Martin yet. I won't hold my breath. I have a feeling he is close to Sky / Team Sky and is keen on finding out who knows what so that they can take appropriate steps.

 

[42x16ss]

Both Daryl Webster and Esafosfina raced in the 80's/90's and know the internal workings of BC at the time. Both have been less than flattering of Ellingworth and Sutton. Esafosfina posts at Velorooms but don't know how much he'll say. I don't know what happened to Daryl Webster

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Both Daryl Webster and Esafosfina raced in the 80's/90's and know the internal workings of BC at the time. Both have been less than flattering of Ellingworth and Sutton. Esafosfina posts at Velorooms but don't know how much he'll say. I don't know what happened to Daryl Webster

Daryl, had some misunderstanding with the laws, last time i heard.