Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Alphabet]

Re: Re:

Yes, this very much accords with how I was seeing things. Although I thought that the Sky train version 1.1 in 2012 was a giveaway. Watching Mick Rogers blow GC contenders away was.....not believable as clean cycling.

And the epistemic point that the zealots who demand empirical evidence need to understand is this: we are relying on empirical evidence to make our judgements. Not just what we see 'with our naked eyes' but also how this coheres with previous knowledge about climbing times, and more recently, power/watts. And how this further coheres with legal testimony and formal admissions about doping.

Beautiful post. Philosophy comes to The Clinic!

 

[Jeroen Swart]

viewtopic.php?p=1982047#p1982047

This post I made in July will make more sense in light of recent events.

I got flamed for it by Benotti69.

Sometimes the benefit of hindsight makes things clearer. ;-)

 

[rick james]

Re: Sky

So what happens next year? Does Froome back off the sauce a little due to the heat?

Yip that's Froomes style...Back off..

Sadly for you lot nothing will come out about Froome, because there is nothing to tell

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1982047#p1982047

This post I made in July will make more sense in light of recent events.

I got flamed for it by Benotti69.

Sometimes the benefit of hindsight makes things clearer. ;-)

Fair do-s

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Sky

So what happens next year? Does Froome back off the sauce a little due to the heat?

Giro,Tour+Vuelta
Full genius
I expect

Me too
Make it so obvious no one thinks it can be true

 

[ferryman]

Re: Sky

So what happens next year? Does Froome back off the sauce a little due to the heat?

Yip that's Froomes style...Back off..

Sadly for you lot nothing will come out about Froome, because there is nothing to tell

Not quite, but pre 2011 it was back of. Please do tell us uninformed us lot why we should start to believe in sporting miracles? Oh, and just to remind you, Froome is not English, he's African and you can enjoy this sport without myopic red white and blue specs on.

 

[sniper]

Re:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1982047#p1982047

This post I made in July will make more sense in light of recent events.

I got flamed for it by Benotti69.

Sometimes the benefit of hindsight makes things clearer. ;-)

The thing is they already stated they wouldn't let anyone ride with TUEs.
That's proven to be a straughtout lie.
Why should we ask it again?
They've been caught lying on other key issues, too.
And so there really is no point in asking them anything again, unless you like being lied to.
Its time to start opening ones mind to the bloody obvious truth. Santa Claus doesn't exist.
The thing is anybody can do the math now.
The only thing cycling needs right now is journalists that are not sell outs. So no Walsh (whom you awkwardly defended last year), no Syed, no Fotheringham, no Sherwen, etc.

 

[Grandillusion]

Re: Sky

Why has the administrator blocked me from answering on the other thread? Bit odd.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1982047#p1982047

This post I made in July will make more sense in light of recent events.

I got flamed for it by Benotti69.

Sometimes the benefit of hindsight makes things clearer. ;-)

Flamed! I suggested you get the ball rolling and offer some questions. Flamed. Dear we are thin skinned!



By the way, your boy Froome blew Wiggins away on climbs in 2012 TdF, with no TUEs. Not normal.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1982047#p1982047

This post I made in July will make more sense in light of recent events.

I got flamed for it by Benotti69.

Sometimes the benefit of hindsight makes things clearer. ;-)

Flamed! I suggested you get the ball rolling and offer some questions. Flamed. Dear we are thin skinned!



By the way, your boy Froome blew Wiggins away on climbs in 2012 TdF, with no TUEs. Not normal.

or Kenacort isn't nearly as performance enhancing as people make out?

 

[sniper]

Good point Spud. Maybe that explains why Wiggins needed 40mg whereas average dosages of previous dopers used to oscillate between 10 and 25mg.

 

[Jacques (7 ch)]

Re: Re:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1982047#p1982047

This post I made in July will make more sense in light of recent events.

I got flamed for it by Benotti69.

Sometimes the benefit of hindsight makes things clearer. ;-)

Flamed! I suggested you get the ball rolling and offer some questions. Flamed. Dear we are thin skinned!



By the way, your boy Froome blew Wiggins away on climbs in 2012 TdF, with no TUEs. Not normal.

or Kenacort isn't nearly as performance enhancing as people make out?

More likely that Wiggo and Froome were on completely separate programmes. Wiggo's from within BC/ Sky ('grey areas' - allowing him and SDB to front up with at least half a clear conscience) and Froome's being 100% DIY pre 2011 Vuelta (full genius), for which everyone felt the least worst option was to let him get on with it.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

Good point Spud. Maybe that explains why Wiggins needed 40mg whereas average dosages of previous dopers used to oscillate between 10 and 25mg.

Actually to clarify something for me - did those other users have one-off injections or multiple ones during their GTs / races (and OOC)? I cant seem to find much in the way of reporting either way. Also, a question I asked in the Wiggins thread - the TUE was for one day (late June, presumably at the start of the 'In Competition' period). How long does that give protection from an AAF for? A day, a week, the whole race??

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1982047#p1982047

This post I made in July will make more sense in light of recent events.

I got flamed for it by Benotti69.

Sometimes the benefit of hindsight makes things clearer. ;-)

Flamed! I suggested you get the ball rolling and offer some questions. Flamed. Dear we are thin skinned!



By the way, your boy Froome blew Wiggins away on climbs in 2012 TdF, with no TUEs. Not normal.

or Kenacort isn't nearly as performance enhancing as people make out?

Sure, that is why it is used so much in sport

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Good point Spud. Maybe that explains why Wiggins needed 40mg whereas average dosages of previous dopers used to oscillate between 10 and 25mg.

Actually to clarify something for me - did those other users have one-off injections or multiple ones during their GTs / races (and OOC)? I cant seem to find much in the way of reporting either way. Also, a question I asked in the Wiggins thread - the TUE was for one day (late June, presumably at the start of the 'In Competition' period). How long does that give protection from an AAF for? A day, a week, the whole race??

The rest of his life till FancyBears told the world!

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Good point Spud. Maybe that explains why Wiggins needed 40mg whereas average dosages of previous dopers used to oscillate between 10 and 25mg.

Actually to clarify something for me - did those other users have one-off injections or multiple ones during their GTs / races (and OOC)? I cant seem to find much in the way of reporting either way. Also, a question I asked in the Wiggins thread - the TUE was for one day (late June, presumably at the start of the 'In Competition' period). How long does that give protection from an AAF for? A day, a week, the whole race??

The rest of his life till FancyBears told the world!

The other thing is, that day prior to the TdF 2011 was allegedly Wiggins' first ever Kenacort injection.
If true ( ), it would mean he and his docs would've had no idea how Wiggins would react to it. This in turn makes a complete mockery of another one of Wiggins' claims, namely that he took the shot because he'd "rather be safe than sorry".
Lies upon lies.

 

[Ironhead Slim]

Re: Re:

Good point Spud. Maybe that explains why Wiggins needed 40mg whereas average dosages of previous dopers used to oscillate between 10 and 25mg.

Actually to clarify something for me - did those other users have one-off injections or multiple ones during their GTs / races (and OOC)? I cant seem to find much in the way of reporting either way. Also, a question I asked in the Wiggins thread - the TUE was for one day (late June, presumably at the start of the 'In Competition' period). How long does that give protection from an AAF for? A day, a week, the whole race??

Seriously, has this been answered?

 

[sniper]

No. Neither Sky nor Cookson have addressed that let alone answered it.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Good point Spud. Maybe that explains why Wiggins needed 40mg whereas average dosages of previous dopers used to oscillate between 10 and 25mg.

Actually to clarify something for me - did those other users have one-off injections or multiple ones during their GTs / races (and OOC)? I cant seem to find much in the way of reporting either way. Also, a question I asked in the Wiggins thread - the TUE was for one day (late June, presumably at the start of the 'In Competition' period). How long does that give protection from an AAF for? A day, a week, the whole race??

Seriously, has this been answered?

I haven't seen anyone answer this. Its valid across all sports not just cycling.

 

[sniper]

See the TUE thread.
Nice attempt to deflect away from your failed attempt to deflect away from the power of Kenacort as a PED.
A deflection from a deflection. Chapeau.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

See the TUE thread.
Nice attempt to deflect away from your failed attempt to trivialize the power of Kenacort as a PED.

Not an attempt at all - I just hadn't seen it answered.

 

[sniper]

That's a triple deflection.
Own it.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

That's a triple deflection.
Own it.

Post the link to where it is answered and we can all move on - I cant find it. And its relevant because if a one-day TUE provides 3-4 weeks cover for an AAF then that is VERY different from it only providing cover for the 24 hours.

 

[sniper]

The question is irrelevant to the issue at hand (the power of kenacort).
Stop clogging and move on.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

That's a triple deflection.
Own it.

Post the link to where it is answered and we can all move on - I cant find it. And its relevant because if a one-day TUE provides 3-4 weeks cover for an AAF then that is VERY different from it only providing cover for the 24 hours.

Ex riders have stated that the Wiggins injection meant he was covered the Tour and could take more injections claiming anything in his samples (if they tested for it) was from TUE injection.